The Blue Whale in the Room No One Wants to See

I wrote the other day how the President of the United States in blaming the Texas Church Massacre on a deranged person does not want to see the Blue Whale  in the room. That is that even if the person was deranged or mentally ill, of which there is no history, the massacre could not have happened if we had common sense gun laws in the country.

No one who thinks like the president wants to accept that the conditions that existed in 1787 were totally different from they are  today. It seems to me that suggesting a blunderbuss in the hands of a citizen is the same as a machine gun is the height of naïveté or at a minimum a sign one is blind to society as it exists today. One would say a good SAT question would be a machine gun is to the blunderbuss, as a nuclear bomb is to a (a) cherry bomb; (b) hand grenade; (c) 3 sticks of TNT; or (4) land mine.

The gun decision (Heller) was written by Scalia who is no longer on the Court. He was replaced by Gorsuch. Even though he was appointed by Trump there was always hope he might have a different view on guns than Scalia. That hope was dashed last summer when he joined Justice Thomas in a  dissent from the Court’s refusal to bring the case of  Peruta v. California to it for a hearing. The issue was whether a person has a right to carry  firearms in public. The case was from California where the law  prohibits openly  carrying a firearm in public. Peruta sought a license to  carry a concealed firearm in public. The law provides he is able to do this if he shows “good  cause.

The sheriff to whom the application for a license was made interprets the phrase “good cause” to mean more than just a concern for one’s personal safety or one’s need for self-defense but  requires a particularized showing that his situation is different from that of the general public (mainstream) which causes him to be placed in harm’s way. In other words, without pointing to a particular need rather than the general desire to be able to defend oneself the license to carry will not issue

Justice Thomas suggested the scheme faced by Peruta was a denial of his right to bear arms as guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment as interpreted by Heller. To me the case is interesting because it shows Gorsuch’s disposition as well as the Supreme Court’s when it comes to  guns. The former is  a true believer in Heller while the latter is ducking the issue. Why is that?

Thomas points out that even with great disagreement among the states and federal courts over the issue, and even though over the last 7 years the Court has not heard any 2nd Amendment cases. During that time it has heard 35 cases on the First and 25 cases on the Fourth Amendment.

Thomas suggests the Court looks at the 2nd Amendment as “a disfavored right” and notes “The Constitution does not rank certain rights above the other.”  He concludes his dissent stating: “For those of us who work in marbled halls,  guarded constantly by a vigilant and dedicated police force, the guarantee of the Second Amendment might seem antiquated and superfluous. But the Framers made a clear choice. They reserved to all Americans the right to bear arms for self-defense.  I do not think we should stand by idly while a State denies its citizens that right, particularly when their very lives may depend on it.”

I asked why that is that the Court is ducking dealing with the Second Amendment. I suggest it recognizes that its decision in Heller is  wrong. None of those justices who went along with Scalia other than Thomas want to admit this.  perhaps they are hoping that Congress will do something about the mess we have ourselves in with the present gun laws. That, of course, will never happen because of the erroneous belief that the National Rifle Association holds great power over the voters.

Nor can the Court look to the present president. He just signed a bill making it easier for mentally ill people to get  guns (and he attributes a massacre to mental illness). His son-in-law is pushing regulations to make silencers legal. So that cupboard is bare.

Why isn’t it simple for the Court to say there is no way the Framers of the Second Amendment could understand the advances in firearms and had they then they would have expected reasonable limits on their use. How would it intrude upon anyone’s Second Amendment rights if all magazines that carried more than six rounds were outlawed and that to replace a magazine with another would be difficult so that at least 10 seconds would pass before it could be accomplished. The hunters, target shooters, and self-defense types could all have their guns; the future victims would have time to escape or defend selves during the time rounds were being exchanged. Isn’t that a simple step forward given that the Hellers decision exists.

134 thoughts on “The Blue Whale in the Room No One Wants to See

  1. As Bill “rhapsody in blue” C constantly reminds us

    ” I like to beat it until it bleeds,
    then I beat it for bleeding”

  2. Jimmy Carter was right. But most men don’t lust for young ‘uns.

    Remember poor Michael Kennedy; From 34-39 caught in an affair with 14 -19 year old babysitter. Not good. He should have waited a few years. If caught at 34 having sex with a 14 year old he’d have been prosecuted for “statutory rape” punishable, in most states very severely, “up to life”. There are exceptions: Romeo and Juliet Laws.

    Poor Garrison Keillor says he only “touched” her back; it was bare skin, because that was the kind of blouse she was wearing. Maybe he lingered too long on the back, but an apology, not a firing would have sufficed, before our modern day Inquisition began.

    The law is complex in these areas. Every touching is not an assault. However, in the workplace it can be: Title IX makes a federal case out of everything remotely off-color in every workplace: a “sexual harassment” incident can include “looking” and “joking” and “standing close” and “repeatedly asking out”.

    Flirting is definitely taboo, in every workplace in America these days.

    Even outside the workplace, today, you’d probably want to get permission in writing, notarized, before trying for first base.

  3. Khalid: our armed forces were demoralized by the end of the Vietnam War; not as badly as some say; all knew we were pulling out.

    Msfreeh: Better to investigate the assassination of the Austrian Archduke and ask why that led to WWI and its consequences, including WWII. Wall Street Journal recommends novel, “Dark French Blood”.

    Revisiting JFK’s killing is just spinning wheels and wasting time, in my humble opinion.

    Studying Vietnam, WWI and II, is endlessly rewarding!

    Today’s zeitgeist has swept us up into a reexamination of moral standards.

    That’s good!

  4. In 1971, Colonel Robert D. Heinl wrote in Armed Forces Journal, “Our Army that now remains in Vietnam is in a state approaching collapse, with individual units avoiding or having refused combat, murdering their officers, drug-ridden, and dispirited where not near-mutinous.”

    The crotch, too.

    1. So it is not about the man. It is about the mission in spite of the man.

      I have no problem with Pat or his assessment. I have met him here several times and he seems like a good bloke when you are chatting about the weather. His headquarters were here in McLean when he ran for president. (I think he lives around here somewhere.) I forget which of his runs. I met one of his top campaign managers that year and told her that he had no chance. She was not upset but wanted to hear my reason why. I said that radicals get almost all of their support right off the bat. Someone as bigoted and polarizing as Pat would never fill the void. She grinned and said that Mister Buchanan will do just fine. I said that 20% is not just fine enough in a presidential election.

      Moore might have the same problem as Pat did. His support might not grow and there is a good chance it will shrink.

      1. True enough. I supported Pat when he got @ 1% of the vote in the primaries.

        And I agree we’re on the horns of a dilemma. (1) Principles first: the end does not justify the means; or (2) the lesser of two evils: Moore’s alleged “evils” are 40 years old; Doug Jones will swell government, more abortions, the whole liberal agenda.

        The horns of a dilemma. We know for sure what Doug Jones will do; we don’t know for sure what Roy Moore did, if anything.

        Remember when they wanted to burn Galileo at the stake because he had a different idea?

        We’ll I have different ideas: I think I think differently; usually in the minority; almost always cheering for the underdog (Except, I always cheer for B.C. Football, underdog or not, and always cheered for Marvin Hagler and Roberto Duran, sometimes underdogs.)

        Some people say the lesser of two evils; Choose a guy who’s conservative but who may have groped two underage girls 40 years ago when he was 30. Or put principles before politics and never elect a guy who may have molested two young teens 40 years ago.

        Here’s where I differ:

        I say, even if he did, so what? He stopped. He didn’t rape, he didn’t have intercourse with 17 year-olds like Studds and Crane, he wasn’t running a brothel out of his house, like Barney Frank. He may have sinned very badly on two occasions. We’d all concede that. It may have happened forty years ago. He stopped, then. No further complaints in 40 years. Forgive, forget, move on.

        He was 30-plus and harmlessly dated 17-18-19 year-olds in the 1970s. So what? So did half the bachelor and divorced men I grew up, when the drinking age was 18, and bars and dance halls were stacked. So did Heffner, Springer, Elvis, Hughes, Hilton, and all the guys who courted the likes of Elizabeth Taylor.

        Once upon a time grown men dated 18-19 year-olds. Mostly it was harmless. Most never got to first base; never laid a glove on them, unless they were the initiators. Two friends showed up with college freshmen at a party at a friend’s house; two took others out to dinner and a movie. So what?
        Maybe they were thinking of marriage or re-marriage and like Moore hoped when the young ladies were 22-24 and they were 34-38, they’d hook up for life. One did!

        Maybe it was all honest and honorable. It was, in my time, in my gang. But we were big city kids.

        I remember one party when one of the guys came in with his date: a dancer from the Teddy Bear Lounge; she was welcomed and treated with courtesy and respect; she was probably a student putting her way through college or grad school. So what? I remember living in Maryland when a friend’s friend showed up with his very lovely wife: a former college aged dancer at a popular club. So what? Some guys and girls walk on the wild side.

        So what?

        Second, I say, I doubt the 40 year old stories.

        Third, I have three lifelong friends (a businessmen, a teacher, a priest); the priest a straight arrow was accused by one person of doing something 30 years earlier. (A total lie! The intensive investigation (the effin’ Inquisition) cleared him totally.) The businessmen almost had his business destroyed because one young woman (20s) filed a contemporary complaint ( he allegedly touched her shoulder, stood close to her) a lengthy, costly legal process resulted in his total exoneration. A 15 year old accused the teacher of, get this, “touching her shoulder” too, but more, “looking at her”; essentially the same complaint. After another lengthy investigation, his name was cleared totally, too.

        The point: All three fallacious stories, false allegations, made the newspapers and the newspapers made them look sordid. All three men are among the most honorable men I’ve ever known in my lifetime; all three, on trumped-up charges, almost had their careers destroyed.

        So, you get where I”m coming from!

        1. I do get where you are coming from. I was just on the phone with one of my customers from Bethesda. I’ll be going over there to work in about an hour. Her husband was a Marine chopper pilot. He died about ten years ago. She is a conservative Catholic. A conservative and a Catholic, I should say. (She has friends that only attend Latin Mass and do not eat meat on Friday. Really conservative Catholics). Anyway, she is a big fan of Matt Lauer. Not necessarily his politics but his style and manner, I suppose. She agreed with me when I asked that this question be answered before executing Lauer; How much equals the complete loss of credibility and career?

          You shouldn’t just say it was water under the bridge. Lets move on. Most people that are abused never say anything to anyone about it. There are people that are inspired many years later to come forth with their stories. To be molested or even propositioned for a young woman or man can be extremely traumatic and have lifelong consequences.

          I’ll tell you a story about a friend from Dorchester. In 1938 he was raped by a priest. He told one person. His father. His father beat the crap out of him and told him to never mention it to anyone ever again. Fifty years later he told the story. Not a single word for fifty years. It is not easy for a man to tell a story like that. Damn near impossible for most.

          If your side of the Roy Moore story is true, minus the anecdotal sidebars that are not pertinent, I’m OK with it. If he molested underage girls in any way, I’m not OK with it at all. I want him out. As Shaq once said, “P-E-R-O-D.”

          1. Abe: I see that side of the story, too. Two roads diverged in a yellow wood . . . and we differ . . . !

            Alan Dershowitz(who has done his own share of mudslinging: for example, review the Judge Paul Mahoney case, where Dersh. opposed his nomination because Mahoney once told an anti-Semitic joke; you know the one about the rabbi, priest and minister meeting St. Peter at the the Golden Gates; it has a thousand variations; well Dersh’s real reason was Mahoney was a friend of Bill Bulger, and Dersh (lib) and Bulger (con) clashed on many issues) . . . anyway Alan D. often said one thing I mostly agreed with: “It’s better that 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man be incarcerated.” I’d make it more like 10 to 1, but I agree in principle.

            Matt Lauer I always liked and thought he tried to be fair. He was excoriated for asking Hillary questions.

            Franken? I don’t like. Too, bad, though, because I’d never fire anyone for hugging someone or slapping someone’s fanny. When in Rome, though, . . . . We’re not in Rome. We’re not in the Age of Aquarius. We sometimes seem closer to the Inquisition, the burning of witches, and Salem Witch trials.

            And I agree, some conduct is beyond reprehensible . . . it’s abhorrent and detestable, and merits firing, maybe a firing squad, at least, debarment, defrocking, disqualification . . . if proven, even outside of a courtroom, if proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

            And remember we have civil and social standards that require less stringent standards of proof . . . ( a preponderance of evidence; more likely than not) but still we should require “proofs” . . . beyond mere allegations, rumors, stories!

  5. 1. Good posts on fragging.

    2. Msfreeh: Doug Jones only locked up men who were timely accused and kept them locked up if tried and convicted. You missed the word “alleged.” Roy Moore locked up (as MP) prosecuted (as A.D.A.) sentenced (as Judge) and reviewed the appeals (as Jurist on state’s highest court) of the same type of men. Which makes me wonder further what man, who knows the law, would blithely risk his entire professional career on a two minute dalliance? A drunk may do something stupid. Stone cold sober?

    3. Some troops hated disciplinarians. Some understood the need for discipline in a war zone. As said, Moore was a hard-ass, not an asshole. They fragged the latter!

    Some troops had bad officers.

    My friend, Eddie, a Marine Viet Vet, recalls a bad officer who one time told his men to “charge” (advance on a position); it would have been a suicidal attack; one jarhead put his weapon up to the bad officer’s head and said, “Give that order again and you’re a dead man!” The order was not given again. The matter never reported.

    Some officers and men admired Moore. At least one captain who served with him for four months in the field in Vietnam has written about Moore’s solid, commendable character. Lots of men wearing Viet Vets hats are supporting Moore! One of Moore’s son graduated West Point. Another son is in the military.

    In contrast, remember the Swift Boat Veterans: about 50-plus, as I recall, who signed a letter condemning John Kerry. Shall we stone John Kerry, too. Malign him? Demand he never run for office? I wouldn’t. I don’t like Kerry’s political views: too liberal; I admire his service. I didn’t like his defaming Viet Vets before Congress. My relatives and friends who served in Vietnam were all honorable men; my classmates, men and women, one a nurse, also served their honorably; the names of 24 young men on the South Boston Vietnam Veterans Memorial and 80 young men on the Dorchester Vietnam Veterans Memorial were names of honorable men. I knew some personally who died there; I knew others’ brothers, family. Honorable men!

    3. P.S. Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in killing JFK. Let’s not talk 54 years ago. We’re already getting bogged down in a quagmire talking 40 year old allegations.

    4. This, too, I remember: Some on this Blog predicting Trump would be out of office by May 2017, and Mosul would not be taken without 150,000 more American troops.

    5. We can’t predict the future. We can speculate. It’s reasonable to do so.

    6. As the past recedes, we see it differently, sometimes less clearly than today, sometimes more so.

    As human beings, we all see “through a glass darkly.” More so, these days, it seems.

    We wonder if we’re living in in a world like those depicted in Kubrick’s Space Odyssey or Clockwork Orange or More’s Utopia or the dystopian worlds of Orwell and Huxley. Perhaps a hodgepodge, a mishmash of all. The MSM, computers and Internet run amok; psychobabble; amorality; Big Brother and his all intrusive government!

    One of the best lines I’ve read recently is the last line in of Dennis Lehane’s short story, “Running out of Dog”.

    He wrote: “In case you haven’t noticed, in life you usually pay for your sins; in the South always.”

    The question is what’s the greater sin? Lust, bearing false witness, pre-judging (prejudice) rumor-mongering, or schadenfreude?

    In other words are we talking about to Kill a Mockingbird or Elmer Gantry?

    I’ve already cast my vote: Not guilty!

    1. Facts: multiple women: Yes. To be exact: two young teens with very flawed stories say he assaulted them (groped them.) The story of the third, a 28 year old check forger, is ridiculously implausible. She told no one for what 20 years he grabbed her bum? The first two really told no one the details for 15 or more years; the incidents were @ 40 years old, and their stories don’t jive with documentary evidence!
      Just trying to set the “facts” as we know them straight!

  6. Moore should have been greased.

    AdChoices
    Hamilton Gregory, Contributor
    Hamilton Gregory, a Vietnam veteran, is author of McNamara’s Folly: The Use of Low-IQ Men in the Vietnam War, and he appears in a YouTube video entitled “McNamara’s Folly.”
    The Forgotten History Of ‘Fragging’ In Vietnam
    Senate candidate Roy Moore was reportedly among those officers targeted by their own men.
    11/26/2017 09:39 pm ET

    UNIVERSAL HISTORY ARCHIVE VIA GETTY IMAGES
    350
    Fragging – the murder of officers and sergeants by their own troops – was in the news recently when it was reported that Roy Moore, currently campaigning in Alabama for a U.S. Senate seat, risked being killed by some of his subordinates in Vietnam.

    After graduating from West Point in 1969, Moore served in Germany as a lieutenant and then he was promoted to captain and given command of the 188th Military Police Company in Vietnam in 1971. This came during the final years of the war when men who were violent, drug-addled, or disturbed became a significant presence in the Army and Marine Corps, causing a serious breakdown of discipline. In 1971, Colonel Robert D. Heinl wrote in Armed Forces Journal, “Our Army that now remains in Vietnam is in a state approaching collapse, with individual units avoiding or having refused combat, murdering their officers, drug-ridden, and dispirited where not near-mutinous.”

    The term “fragging” was derived from the fact that a fragmentation grenade was rolled into the area where an officer or NCO was sleeping. When it exploded, no fingerprints could be found. The target was often a leader who was hated because he was incompetent in leading men, or excessively harsh in his discipline, or overly aggressive in waging war (putting the lives of soldiers and Marines at unnecessary risk just so that he could gain glory and advance his own career).

    In addition to thousands of threats that were never carried out, there were confirmed reports of at least 800 fraggings or attempted fraggings in the Army and Marine Corps, with 86 men killed and an estimated 700 wounded. “But this was probably only the tip of a deadly iceberg,” says historian James Westheider. The true figure may never be known.

    According to Westheider, many officers felt unsafe simply because they were authority figures. During his second tour in Vietnam at Duc Pho in 1968-1969, Major Colin Powell (later a four-star general) said he was “living in a large tent and I moved my cot every night, partly to thwart Viet Cong informants who might be tracking me, but also because I did not rule out attacks on authority from within the battalion itself.” Captain Thomas Cecil, who was stationed at Cam Ranh Bay in 1970-1971, “was so worried about attacks on his life that during his last month in Vietnam, he slept in the military intelligence (MI) bunker, and only his battalion commander knew where he was at night.”

    In his autobiography So Help Me God, Roy Moore said that when he took command of his company in Vietnam, “drug use was widespread and insubordination was commonplace.” He immediately enforced strict discipline. “I administered many Article Fifteens, disciplinary charges filed against insubordinate or disobedient soldiers,” especially drug users.

    As a result, he said, he received threats of death by fragging. “I became a marked man,” he said. Claiming that he was not intimidated, he refused to soften his discipline. He did, however, take precautionary measures to reinforce his sleeping area. “I placed sandbags under the bed and in the walls of my quarters.”

    Moore learned that “a known drug user by the name of Kidwell” was planning to kill him. “Several weeks passed before I was called one evening and informed that Kidwell had shot First Sergeant Howard and was coming for me. Armed with an automatic rifle and my 45-caliber pistol, I proceeded to company headquarters, only to find that Kidwell had been taken into custody and was sitting in my office. I made arrangements for a prompt court martial and was relieved that First Sergeant Howard had survived.”

    Army veteran George Lepre’s book-length investigation of hundreds of fraggings (Fragging: Why U.S. Soldiers Assaulted Their Officers in Vietnam) found that most of the attacks occurred after dark in Army and Marine Corps units — they were rare in the Air Force and Navy. Innocent bystanders sometimes became “the unintended victims of the attacks,” and the families of fragging victims usually were not given the true details of what had happened to the deceased.

    Most fraggings occurred inside camps, while out in jungles and rice paddies, a different method was used by infantrymen who wanted to kill “bad officers,” according to Robert Nylen, a combat infantry officer and author of Guts. “Sometimes, an errant bullet struck an incompetent fool amid a firefight. Problem solved.”

    According to military historians, murders of superiors have been rare in America’s recent wars – Iraq and Afghanistan – because the military draft was ended in 1973 and an all-volunteer armed force was instituted. Efforts were made to exclude criminals, drug addicts, and misfits.

    Hamilton Gregory, a Vietnam veteran, is author of McNamara’s Folly: The Use of Low-IQ Men in the Vietnam War, plus the Induction of Unfit Men, Criminals, and Misfits, and he appears in a YouTube video entitled “McNamara’s Folly.”

    1. An acquaintance went to WPI and was in ROTC. Late in the war he went to Vietnam. Maybe 1973ish. He was a solid soldier but didn’t do what he thought he was going to do in a war zone. No combat. Mostly clerical and as he put it, with the biggest bunch of lay-about’s as soldiers he could have ever imagined in his command. These guys didn’t even know where their rifles were. The first time they blew up his bunk they made sure he was not in it. Message sent. The second time he was suppose to be in it but as luck would have it he was not. Tough year for the guy. His family was full of vets. His father was in North Africa and his desire to serve, as his father did, led him to Vietnam. It just didn’t turn out the way he thought it would. But he survived. To think he might have gotten wounded or killed by his own men bothered him for a long time after.

  7. Flynn rolled. I’m surprised. I thought Manafort would sell out Glorious Leader, first. Looks like FSB has their hooks so deep into Manafort, he’s got to ride the Trump train right to the very end. Wa-llahi! I hope Mueller indicts Trump. Bank him with Jim, but don’t bunk him with Jim. Nobody deserves a motor-mouth bunkenstein like Trump.

  8. Bombogenesis = EXXON Warming

    https://robertscribbler.com/2017/11/27/54-fahrenheit-above-average-extreme-warming-event-for-greenland-baffin-bay-underway/

    54 Fahrenheit Above Average: Extreme Warming Event For Greenland, Baffin Bay Underway
    At the mouth of Baffin Bay just off the West Coast of Greenland today hurricane force wind gusts are blowing in from the south.

    This roaring invasion of warm air originates from the Central Atlantic along a latitude line south of the Azores. It climbs hundreds of miles north to where it is intensified between a grinding 975 mb low off Labrador and a massive 1042 mb high squatting over Central Greenland. Temperatures in this warm air mass range from near 50 degrees (F) over Southwestern Greenland to around 40 degrees (F) over the mouth of Baffin Bay. Or between 9 and 36 degrees (F) above normal for this time of year.

    (Hurricane force wind gusts are driving a wedge of above freezing air into Baffin Bay and over Western Greenland at a time when these regions should be seeing well below freezing conditions. Image source: Earth Nullschool.)

    This warm wind driven air mass is expected to move north over the next 24 to 48 hours. It will steadily blanket both glaciers and areas typically covered with sea ice. And as it does so, it will push temperatures above freezing for large sections of both Baffin Bay and Western Greenland with above 32 F readings progressing as far as the Petermann Glacier.

    What this means is that temperatures will likely hit record ranges of up to 54 degrees Fahrenheit above average in some locations near the far northern extent of this expected warm air invasion. Overall, Greenland itself is expected to see 15 degree (F) above average readings for the entire island. This will generate brief surface melt conditions for parts of Greenland during late November.

    (Large region of 20 to 30 C, or 36 to 54 F, above average temperatures is predicted to blanket Greenland and the Canadian Archipelago after moving north through Baffin Bay over the next two days. Image source: Global and Regional Climate Anomalies.)

    Strong warm air invasions of the Arctic at this time of year are a signal coming from human-forced climate change. As the northern pole darkens with winter, a global warming related phenomena called polar amplification ramps up. In addition, during recent years, we’ve seen warm air slots tend to develop beneath strong ridging features in the upper level Jet Stream. This year, the warm air slots have tended to form over the Bering Sea along the Pacific side of the Arctic and progress northward into the Chukchi. This has resulted in a large zone of ice free waters for a typically frozen region between Alaska and Siberia as warm winds and storm force waves have continuously beat the ice back.

    The present warm air invasion for Greenland may be a signal that a similar warm air slot is attempting to develop over Baffin Bay going forward. Or it may be a fluke in the overall pattern. Watch this space.

  9. 9/11 and Other Deep State Crimes Teleconference
    wtc7 pentagon
    Draft Agenda for 11/29/17 Teleconference

    8pm (ET)/5pm (PT) Teleconference # (641) 715-0632 Access code: 551571#
    [Note: Some telephone service providers block access to this teleconference service, or require additional charges. If you encounter any of these difficulties, please try calling this alternative number: (716) 293-9623. You will then be required to key in the original phone number above before entering the access code. Please inform of us of any technical difficulties you encounter in accessing the teleconference.]

    Greetings all,

    To start us off this month, Craig McKee will give his assessment of how the 9/11 Truth Movement can address the contentious question of what happened, and what didn’t happen, at the Pentagon on 9/11 as well as how friction within the movement over this subject might be overcome. To this end, Craig will explain a new initiative he has taken to find common ground on a point that, he asserts, shows the official story false – that a 757 did NOT hit the Pentagon.

    This month of we commemorate the assassination of president John F Kennedy. Was this this the work of an isolated cabal or the maiden voyage of the US Deep State? To mark the occasion and help us connect these dots, we’re fortunate to be joined by recognized researcher and director of the Justice Integrity Project Andrew Kreig. Fifty years have now passed since this tragic event unfolded! Don’t miss this opportunity to hear the latest word on the JFK assassination/Deep State connection from this renowned advocate of truth!

    We’ll close with any announcements you have to share with the Truth community.

    See you Wednesday night for these latest currents in the Truth movement!

    Peace,
    Ken Freeland
    Cheryl Curtiss
    Craig McKee

    DRAFT AGENDA for Wednesday 29 November Teleconference

    I Roll Call, minutes approval (see below), agenda approval (5 min)

    II “The Pentagon: Where we’ve been and where we need to go” [Craig McKee] (commentary and discussion-25 min)

    III “The JFK Assassination and the Deep State” [Andrew Kreig] (30 min) {Cheryl}

    IV Announcements

    V Any available updates on issues of identified ongoing concern (if any remaining time)\
    New articles, books, films, or recent news about 9/11 or other Deep State crimes
    9/11 and the Deep State on the legal front, including current adjudicatory efforts by Lawyers for 9/11 Inquiry, JASTA, 28 pages, William Pepper’s efforts with AE911Truth against NIST and the Dept. of Commerce
    Censorship and cognitive infiltration: new examples of censorship or harassment of members of the Truth community; MSM treatment of 9/11 Truth
    Google censorship
    The 9/11 Consensus Panel
    9/11 Truth political candidates
    VI Adjournment (by 9:30 p Eastern)

    This draft agenda sent to:
    John Heartson, Don DeBar, Scott Halfmann, Steven E. Jones, William Rodriguez, David Ray Griffin, William Douglas, Steve Alten , Tom Tvedten, Justin Martel, Les Jamieson, Michael Jackman, Michael Wolsey, Peggy Brewster, Barrie Zwicker, Erik Lawyer, Gabriel Day, Kevin Barrett, PhD, Carol Brouillet, Mia Hamel, Paul Craig Roberts, Jack Blood, Diana (for investigar11s.org), Cheryl Curtiss, Jodie Baltazar, Jarek Kupsc, Joseph Culp, Ken Jenkins, Ellen Mariani, Gerhard Bedding, Jack Shimek, Paul Krik, Rock Creek Free Press, Damon Bean, Allan Giles, Kyle Hence, Michael Berger, Dylan Avery, Jason Burmas, Mike Palecek, Donald Stahl, Ray McGovern, Cynthia McKinney, Ph,D, Don Plummer, Doug Wight, Global Outlook, Paul Zarembka, Penny Little, Bob Cable, Suzanne Warson, Peter Thottam, Ralph Schoenman, Carol Wolman, Scholars for 911 Truth & Justice, Hummux, Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth, Frank Morales, Frank Tolopko, Alan Miller, James Hufferd, Ph.D., Erik Larson, Ted Walter , Suzanne Warson, Frederick Coward, Gordon Duff, Sherri Kane, Leonard Horowitz, William Woodward, Jerry Mazza, William Pepper, Wayne Madsen, David Kimball, Jeffrey Orling, Michael Marino, Lenny Mather, Ken Freeland, Tania Torres, Graeme MacQueen, Yumi Kikuchi, Stuart Hutchison, Roland Angle, Frank Agamemnon , Harold Hilton, Phil Restino, Rich McCampbell, John Zito, Manny Badillo, John Hankey, Oskar Mosquito, Edwin Jewett, Ms Anisa Fattah, Robert Barron, Shelton Lankford, Matthew Hayward, Anna Yeisley, Chris Pratt, Craig Ranke, Susan Lindauer, Barbara Honegger, Democritus Blantayre, Joseph Baltar, Jim Hogue, Sheila Casey, Steve Martin, Ben Collet, Elizabeth Woodward, Runyan Wilde, Susan Wolfe, Adam Ruff, Conrad Gilber. Jonathan Mark, Tonya Sneed, Dan Sutton, Richard Krushnic, Mark Crispin Miller, Byron Belitsos, George Ripley, Laurie Manwell , Susan Serpa, Nicolas Guillermo, Dwain Deets, Craig McKee, Steve Fahrney; Fran Shure; David Petrano, Lawrence Fine, A.K. Dewdney, Steve De’ak, Allan Rees, Art Olivier, Ron Avery, Michael Booth, Jim Fetzer, Laura Katleman, Don Gibbs, Mark Basile, John-Michael Talboo, Julian Stroh, Christopher Gruener, Elias Davidsson, Martin McGee, Adnan Zuberi, Jan Ravensbergen, Rich Aucoin, David Hooper, Wayne Coste, P.E., Don Fox, Bill Wilt, William Jacoby, Ron Neils, John Campbell, Dan Hennen, Barton Bruce, Cheri Aspenleiter, Stephen Phillips, Dick Atlee, Lynn Ertrell, Nita Renfrew. Frank Tolopko, Mark McDonald, Christopher Bollyn, John Paul OMalley, Rodger Bories, Mark Snyder, Jane Clark, Richard Sacks, Tim Michel, Lynn Bradbury, Xander Arena, David Cole, Rick Tufts, Jerry Turner, Rick Shaddock, Rebecca Schmoyer, Mark Mckertich, Kip Beckford, Doug West, PF Soto, Dennis Cimino, Jane Clark, Charles Ewing Smith, Lucy Morgan Edwards, Pablo Novi, David Rolde, Gregory Flynn, Pat O’Connell, Jeff Long, Greg McCarron, Andy Steele, Thomas Robichaud, Doug Mackenzie, Peter Michael Ketcham, Gene Laratonda, Karl Golovin, Steve Jarrott, Neil Marquis, Matt Van Slyke, Tony Hall, Ph.D, Ibrahim Soudy. Ph.D., Mike Springman, Ezra Smith, Samuel Smith, Janane Tripp, Daniel Fielding

    ********************************************************

    Craig McKee, Secretary 9/11 Monthly Teleconference Call
    **********************
    Draft minutes for the Wed., October 25, 2017 regular conference call

    Present were:

    Ken Freeland, Teleconference co-facilitator, Houston 9/11Truth
    Cheryl Curtiss, Teleconference co-facilitator, Connecticut 9/11 Truth
    Craig McKee, Teleconference secretary, Truth and Shadows
    James Hufferd, 9/11 Grassroots
    Wayne Coste, TAP
    David Cole, Nine Eleven Accountability Team
    Peter Michael Ketcham, formerly of NIST
    Barbara Honegger, Behind the Smoke Curtain
    Frank Tolopko, Berkshire 9/11 Truth
    John O’Malley, DC911Truth
    Charles Ewing Smith
    Barrie Zwicker, Towers of Deception
    Dwain Deets, TAP
    Greg Longo, 9/11 activist
    Bill Wilt, Mass. congressional candidate
    Cat McGuire, 9/11 Truth Outreach
    David Rolde, Boston 9/11 Truth
    Pat O’Connell, TAP
    Karl Golovin, 9/11 activist
    Wayne Madsen, The Madsen Report
    Michael Cook, AE911Truth
    Bill Wilt, Congressional candidate

    The minutes of the September 27, 2017 conference call were APPROVED pending the inclusion of a link to the final video shot in New York City on Sept. 11.

    The draft agenda was APPROVED.

    Pressure on Hulsey students
    Wayne Madsen discussed his article on the pressure brought against students of Prof. Leroy Hulsey of the University of Alaska who is doing an engineering study of the destruction of Building 7.

    Discussion on 9/11 Rogue Agenda
    Charles Ewing Smith lead a discussion of his film 9/11 Rogue Agenda. Anyone who would like to watch the film can do so here. Charles invites everyone to offer feedback

    Discussion on 9/11 Rogue Agenda
    Wayne Coste gave another presentation on the Pentagon that addressed some questions that had been raised on a past teleconference. You can view his PowerPoint presentation here: http://www.hopeoutloud.org/pentagon/Pentagon_Plane_Approach_And_Impact.pdf

    Announcements
    Wayne Coste mentioned a conference that is going on in November in New York City that is to feature William Binney, who will discuss NSA systems that were turned off for 9/11 and then back on after the event.
    Barbara Honegger noted that the day after the call, the remaining Kennedy documents were scheduled to be released from the National Archive. She added that there are two historic JFK conferences going on in November.
    Craig McKee announced that he will be making a statement on the next call about where he thinks the Truth Movement needs to go with respect to the Pentagon. He hopes that as many people as possible will participate in the discussion.
    Wayne announced that he will follow up on a presentation Craig did about the increasing Google suppression of alternative websites, adding that an article on the subject is being posted on the 911tap.org site.

    Call began at 8 p.m. EST and adjourned at 9:40 p.m. EST/5 p.m. to 6:40 p.m. PST

    Audio of the Oct. 25 call can be heard here: http://www.houston911truth.net/audio/102517.mp3. The next monthly teleconference will take place on Wednesday, Nov. 29, 2017 at 8 p.m. EST, 5 p.m. PST. Please email agenda items for next call to facilitator Ken Freeland (by Nov. 25. Please use subject line “Agenda item for 911 Truth Teleconference.” Please include a brief description of your item and any relevant links you’d like participants to be aware of, together with your estimate of the number of minutes your agenda item will require.

    1. Khalid:
      I believe the Access Hollywood Tape is real. I recall Trump said, gals “LET YOU GRAB THEM” when you’re a celebrity.

      Lot’s of stuff Trump says is malarkey. Same with lots of spin/falsehoods from MSM, WaPo etc!

      Remember Weapons of Mass Destruction? Should we have trusted our Pols, MSM and “Intelligence Agencies” back then. Didn’t they spin, conceal and take info out of context? Don’t they still?

  10. It is not uncommon to hear the sounds of Deodato wafting thru the Flying Pond
    Variety parking lot and reverberating off the small cluster of mountains that
    surround Flying Pond here in Vienna Maine.
    Customers jitterbugging their way to their to their cars in the Maine prehistoric
    dawn holding a steaming hot cup of Green Mountain Coffee while biting into
    their home made Lutefisk McMuffin.

    Deodato – Also sprach Zarathustra

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RJKsp9_L24Q

  11. Why We Write

    by Billy C.

    You know the story of the Budhist water carrier/stone cutter who reached Nirvana? They asked him what he did after achieving perfect consciousness. He said, “I cut stones and carry water.”

    Now here’s the rest of that story:

    China’s Sunway TaihuLight computer is fastest in the world “with 93 petaflops, (9 x 10 to 16th power, 1016) “that figure is the equivalent of 33,860 trillion calculations per second.” (3 x 10 to 13th power) So, in this instance, calculations per second would be one-thousandth the petaflops (FLOP is a “float point operation” or calculation or “information”, hertz is a cycle, speed per second. But let’s not quibble. We’re talking fast.

    These computers are calculating at a speed close to the human brain’s processing power. (Far less than the human body’s). It’s predicted the first quantum computers will be one million times faster, 10 to 19th or 10 to the 20th power. And Scientific America, this month, said a new 300 Qbit quantum computer may achieve speeds of 10 to the 80th power, “more calculations per second than all the atoms in the observable universe.”

    Now, remember Isaac Azimov’s great short story about a computer as large as our solar system? Ages hence, when all the stars burn out, when all atoms and subatomic particles dissipate and dissolve, the universe is cast into total darkness. But that computer churns away, and tries to answer “The Final Question” humans put to it, which was “How will the Universe end?” and after a few billion more years as it computes and continuously repairs itself, grows, learns, morphs, suddenly a thought, maybe an answer comes to it. It dwells on the thought for a few billion more years; it groans; finally it speaks: “Let there be light!”

    The relevance is this: Some super computer will gather all the Info in the Ether (the ethereal info-verse) and use it solve problems. And maybe our jottings on this page will be used to calculate the solutions to some conundrums in science, politics, history and the law, millennia, billennia hence.

    That is once we figure out what human consciousness is! You see, we don’t know. We know computers are not conscious! If truth be told, we still haven’t created a computer that’s as sophisticated as a cat.

    And, indeed, computers may outstrip our brains in smarts, but in instincts, “in senses, dimensions, affections, passions.”? Not so fast!

    Finally, remember, each cell in the human body (there are a trillion of them) performs one trillion biochemical processes per second. One trillion x one trillion x 10 billion human beings is 10 to the 34th cycles per second of processes every second of every day of every year, sleeping or waking; and that’s conscious and subconscious processing power.

    Some world! One world! Created in the beginning . . . 13.5 billion years ago, scientists say.

    The bible says it began with a sound, a voice, a command, a movement . . .

    Richard Strauss interpreted Zarathustra in the first movement of his tone poem, “Also Sprake Zarusthra”. (You know the music from Kubric’s 2001, the Space Odyssey) better than Nietzsche did in his prose, “Thus Spoke Zarusthra.”

    At Bulldog’s Lounge, in the 1970s, a hard rock band from Dorchester opened with Strauss; the band starred Golden Joe Baker, introduced as “Direct from Las Vegas” “The closest they got to Vegas,” a patron once said, “ was probably Squires in Revere.”

    It was showbiz. So, was the Big Bang!

    1. And the whole bloody thing might be happening in a tiny bubble.

      I heard that there were more microbes on a square centimeter on the inside of my colon that there were humans that have ever lived.

      And speaking of Vegas, Wayne Cochran died.

  12. True enough! There may be a number of confabulations going on! You know the psychiatric process called “repression.” I know I’ve forgotten some things I’d rather forget.

    The bigger point, though, when all this is decided, if it can be decided, is what the Washington Post deliberately concealed from the American people: that young Leigh had problems before she met Moore; that within two weeks custody was transferred to her father; that after 15 months with her father (20 miles away) he behavior/disciplinary problems improved; and that 18 months after being with her father, her behavior improved so much that the Court ordered her to return to the custody of her mother.

    Why did the Washington Post deliberately withhold exculpatory evidence from the American people, and allow Leigh, her mother and others to continuously and publicly spin a false story.

    One final thought: Just a question: She returned to her mother ‘s custody at @ 16. Was it at 16 or 17 that she had an encounter with “an older man”?

    CONFOUNDED CONFABULATIONS? Was it after her return home to the custody of her mother in October 1980, that she deteriorated and attempted suicide? I could carry out the speculations on the other side of this coin . . . this ever flipping coin in key of life as the worm turns!

  13. Moore is a distraction. Trump is the real game. Glorious Leader is wilting under the scrutiny of Mr. Mueller. He’d do anything to take the critical spotlight off himself. That’s why he’s feeding the Moore controversy. Even Trump knows he’s going down. For him, the question is when, and, how much can he, his family, and, his cronies, can steal, before, his day of reckoning dawns. Perhaps, some enlightened day, the name Trump will carry the same connotation as Quisling. Move over Benedict Arnold. There’s a new traitor in town.

  14. Abe , Parsing opinion vs. judgement based on solid evidence is generally instructive. Here , it is a distinction that underscores the difficulty of producing the ” solid evidence ” of an alleged sexual assault on a minor that happened almost a half-century ago . The minor at the time , Leigh Corfman , says something happened . The Judge says it did not happen . Indeed the Judge may be CONFABULATING . He may be , unintentionally , putting a civilizing gloss on memory of what may actually have been as seamy an event as Corfman alleged . We do not know at present. In my opinion .

  15. Khalid , I reserve my opinion until the matter is completely ventilated . He has many good qualities, but his hagiography is … premature.

    1. It will be resolved.

      Bill, I really like you, but you refute hearsay with hearsay. Like I said long ago, you can’t roller skate in a buffalo herd. (Roger Miller stole my line.)

      On Wednesday I called my oldest brother and caught him on the golf course (11th ACR, Vietnam 1967-68-69). Like me, born in Roxbury, but he was a white collar in Birmingham, Alabama for 25 years. As a typical Bostonian guttersnipe-made-good type of guy he got to know a lot of people. I asked him about Moore. He said, “I got to meet him several times and know a number of his friends. Excellent guy. Might have had a roaming eye when he was younger, probably not as bad as some people say.”

      And that is where I stand right now on the man. Why you are going to the mat for the guy is your business. To me there is a lot to be decided and it will be on solid evidence. Not opinion. What people say about him in West Point or Vietnam or in a shopping mall is opinion. Someone mentioned Hitler. He had a bunch of close friends that thought the world of him. A few million others…..not so much.

      And you are not pathetic. I take that back. But please don’t say I compared Roy Moore to Hitler. OK?

      1. Abe, I like your posts, John’s and all who agree and disagree with me. But documentary evidence is not “hearsay.”
        We have “accusers” from 40 years ago, but no eyewitnesses.
        We have rumors galore, but also contradictory statements: some were “flattered”; some “annoyed”; some say he was barred from the Mall; others say he wasn’t. The cop, Faye Gray, worked there 37 years and heard “rumors” but not one complaint, civil or criminal, was filed, she says.

  16. You are too eager to be insulted in this case . You have placed Leigh Corfman in a Baghdad stadium , like a Taliban Mullah , on a holiday Sunday , and have done nothing except stone her to death . Leave Billy Bulger out of this . Stop insulting intelligence supposing that you can smother all the fire of accusations made by these women against the Judge . People, based on incidents concerning ….. let’s be kind .. flirtatious hero worship by your lights .. of the Judge by minor women … get a little curious . Their eyebrows go up . Despite all your Southern Gothic Faulknerian brush strokes portraying Judge Ray Moore as the Rhett Butler on the Gadsen canvas , people intuitively recognize that the situation requires … a chaperone . I have an open mind as to Moore and to Corfman . Boo Radley had better manners , at the least , than Judge Roy Moore .

  17. “The last thing we need in Alabama and the U.S. Senate is a Schumer/Pelosi puppet who is WEAK on Crime, WEAK on the Border, Bad for our Military and our great Vets, Bad for our 2nd Amendment, AND WANTS TO RAISES TAXES TO THE SKY. Jones would be a disaster!” Trump tweeted, a de facto endorsement of Judge Roy Moore. I support Roy Moore, too.

    You know who else was accused of a high crimes, had his name dragged through the Media’s mud for a few years, then indicted and tried by a jury? Ray Donovan. In less than 30 minutes, the jury came back and acquitted him. Then Ray Donovan asked, “Where do I go to get my reputation back?”

    You know who else continues to drag many honorable men’s names through the mud? Howie Carr! They have a word for those who delight in others’ suffering: Schadenfreude. They have a word for folks like Carr: Muckrakers!

    Remember Iago’s words (Othello): “He who steals my purse steals nothing . . .But he that filches from me my good name robs me of that which not enriches him, and makes me poor indeed.”
    And how they mocked, scorned Shylock, and “laughed at his losses” out of prejudice(pre-judgement.) And Shylock said, “The villainy you teach me, I will executed, and it shall go harsh, but I will better the instruction.” As revenge he sought his “pound of flesh” but was outwitted by Portia who said take his flesh, as bargained, but “not one drop of blood.”

    Today, the Press seeks to excoriate and take flesh and blood, without recourse, without trial, without hesitancy, without mercy!

  18. It’s easy to insult people!

    Moore was a hero, in his town, and many mothers and teens recognized it then, 40 years ago, and many still do. “Luckiest girl in the world to date him . . . would make a great husband.” Many “flattered” to talk to him. Of course, there’s always folks who like to tear people down. Many admired and respected him them. Many still do. They liked him so much, they voted him a judge in 1994 and several times thereafter, and may make him Alabama’s next Senator.

    Some people “love” the Clintons. .

    What was done to Roy Moore by the Media and bearers of false witness in Gadsden Alabama reminds me of what the Boston Globe and Massachusetts Media and many politicians tried to do to the Honorable William F. Bulger in Massachusetts. Those who knew and loved Mr. Bulger saw through the lies.

    Like I said, it’s easy to cast stones! You’ve illustrated the point.

      1. I could one-thousand: Read the New York Times, Washington Post, and every liberal rag in the country that endorsed Hillary last year (99% of MSM did) and all who supported and still do support Bill Clinton . . . in writing!

  19. I think that you may be in love with this guy . Not that there is anything wrong with that !

    ” Roy Moore, Class President , West Point , Boxer , Athlete, War Veteran , Lawyer , may have made some of those younguns squeal too. ”

    Are they squealing on Judge Roy Moore forty years later ? YIKES !

    1. Wa-llahi! According to Lucian Truscot (Huff Post)who went to the Point with Moore, said, he was a complete asshole. Truscot went on to say that Moore was despised as a martinet by the men in the MP company he bossed in VN. You should add those pertinent facts to your list, Bill.

      1. John andd Khalid,

        I’ve read the views of some at West Point; others admired him and said so in writing. It’s in his yearbook. I’ll quote it later. In high school he was voted “class president” and “most likely to succeed”.

        In Vietnam he was a real disciplinarian; he set up a boxing ring; any NCOs or grunts who had a beef with him could meet him in the ring. I’ve read many did. I’ve read he won every fight.
        I’ve read he was a “hard ass”; they called him, “Captain America”; he was strict, by the book . . . like I said, a Drill Instructor type, a Disciplinarian. He did not fraternize with the men. He knew some hated him. He didn’t care. He was Captain in the Military Police. Discipline came first. He thought he might be “fragged”. He never was. They fragged “real assholes.”

        Perhaps, some would like to frag me for defending Moore. Perhaps I’m too thin skinned or too hard nosed. But I believe what I believe and say it! My little sister reminded me when we were teenagers and someone confronted me, accused me of something, she liked how I’d always say, “So what?”

        I will not leave out of this discussion of Roy Moore, what happened to Donald Trump, Bill Bulger, Ray Donovan, the South Boston Parade Sponsors, Bob Quinn, Ed King, the Duke Lacrosse players or anyone else maliciously smeared by the leftist Media whose specialty is character assassination. The Press fabricates!!! I know how they twist and spin and distort and conceal facts. They’ve done it before, are doing it now, and will do it again. It’s their stock in trade. People shouldn’t forget that! There are people who think as highly of Roy Moore in Alabama as there are around here who esteem Bill Bulger.

        2. I haven’t used any deprecating allusions against anyone, other than to say they are not honestly telling the facts or not honestly considering the facts.

        3. Please do not exaggerate! I am not throwing stones at Leigh Corfman. I am saying she’s fabricating and likely confabulating.

        Exhibit 1: For two weeks now she and Wash Post have spun a story that since her encounter with Judge Moore, her life has spun out of control. Neither she nor the Post told us that prior to meeting Judge Moore she was already experiencing such significant “behavioral and disciplinary” problems that the Court ordered that within 12 days she be removed from her mother and placed with her father. For 20 months she stayed with her father. (When was that reported?) Then when the Court adjudicated that her behavior had “improved” (not deteriorated) she was returned to her mother. (Those facts have been concealed from the Public.

        I could go on: The fact that these “facts” were left out of her and the Post’s story, leads a reasonable person to ask, what other facts did she fabricate?

        (2) Beverly Nelson’s case: A. She shows a yearbook that looks, in part, like a forgery. It’s clear to anyone with eyes to see! (Two different inks, different numbers, the letters “D.A.” appear after Moore’s name, obviously copied from Moore’s decree in 1999 granting Nelson a divorce. Moore’s secretary who stamped his was Delbert Adams.). (B.) She says she was waiting outside for her boyfriend “a week or two later” when the Restaurant closed at 10:00 P.M. She said it was “cold”; how cold? On those days (excluding Christmas Eve and Christmas; she’d remember if it were those nights) historical records show that all days but one the temp was between the 20Fs and low 30s. Freezing cold!! It was the coldest winter in Birmingham Alabama history. (One night it was 44F; seasonable); Jan. 5 (exactly two weeks later, it was also seasonable) So, if it was “cold” as she said, it was freezing cold. Did she have a hat, coat, sweater, gloves on? Likely. But she only mentioned a “shirt”? (C) More contradictory evidence came forward: Other waitresses who worked the Olde Hickory House said it never closed at 10:00 P.M., it closed at 12:00 P.M. or 11:00 P.M.; a factory next door closed at 10:00 and workers always came in for a late meal; they also said that the dumpsters were at the side of the building, not the back, and there was a rap-around-porch with lights on sides. The place was always brightly lit. So there was no “dark space” in back between the dumpster and back door to park a car as she alleged. Too many holes in her story, too.

        (D) The three girls he dated say he “kissed” them: That’s all!

        Is there any more “evidence” you want to execute the man with?

        3. I’ve given you facts. I can’t force you to look at the facts. You give me back, “He propositioned a 16 year old”! Wrong! He asked the 16 year old’s mother if he could date her daughter, when both were standing there; she said No. Was he kidding, joshing, teasing? You don’t know and I don’t know.

        4. He chatted up tons of people; he was class president, a politician, a talkative lawyer, who his partner said was great in trial court, examining and cross-examining witnesses, great oral argument, a great talker. He chatted people up. So what?

        1. Fair enough . Your guy is a schmoozer . A larger than life figure in a small Southern town who attracted a lot of attention , and was easy in returning those attentions not in a cavalier , but nay more in a enthusiastic and disarmingly charming way . He seems , you acknowledge , to have had an eye for ladies of legal age , newly minted . Well there is nothing wrong in any of that . Yet, more than one woman has stepped forward , with no apparent rehearsal , or orchestration , but a desire apparently to seize the main chance , Post-Weinstein , Post -Spacey , and tell the Culture : This guy . He really isn’t such a nice guy !

          1. That’s true, but are thousands who know him now and knew him them, women of all ages, who say he is an honorable and good guy. A devout Christian.

            The problem that irks me is Trump got the same treatment: The New York Times spun the stories of 5 women and 4 of them said, “that’s not what I said.” One women on an airplane admitted they’d been smooching, but she said she complained when he allegedly put his hand on her leg … ten or twenty years earlier. They said he walked in on teen girls undressing in a Ms. Teen America Contest!!! Painting him a deviant, creep, predator. The audiotape . . . two guys talking in private . . . and one states a fact: “when you’re a celebrity they LET YOU grab em by the pussy.” And what were the headlines the next day: Trump admits sexual assault. If groupies LET celebrities grope them, it’s not assault.

            I hear these 40 year old stories, and I say: Show me the evidence. Don’t tell me stories, triple hearsay. Documentary evidence. Did you file a complaint. Well I was only 16? You had till 21 to file a civil complaint. I especially can’t give any credence, when glaring inconsistencies start popping up. “He’s banned at the Mall.” “Two former managers and one former cop say that never happened.” “I heard rumors he was banned at the Mall.” But he was always there. “In 1977 I complained and that led to him being banned at the Mall.” But all the other Mall stories are about 1977-1981. And then the retired cop? Faye Gray: We heard rumors we had to watch him, keep him away from cheerleaders. In the 37 years you were a cop, did anyone file a complaint? No! How about anyone file a civil complaint about harrassment? Ever see one of those, Faye Gray? Well, no! But I heard rumors!

            Well I remember hearing rumors all my life and when I checked some of them out, some were true, some half-baked and some total falsehoods. Rumors don’t amount to much.

            I don’t care who or what the Washington Post or New Yorker or other liberal rags drag up: They and others have proven to have deliberately witheld relevant and exculpating evidence from us, the American people, the people of Alabama, and allowed deliberately false stories, which they knew to be false, to be continuously spun. For example: “How my life deteriorated after meeting Roy Moore!” by Leigh and her mother.

            And I won’t repeat my rant about my contemporaries who dated college girls when we were in our 30s and the drinking age in the 1970s was 18. Sometimes we forget laws, customs and mores change. Alabama in 1970s isn’t the US in 2017.

            We all agree it’s wrong for anyone to assault anyone and especially wrong for anyone over 19 to try to seduce or grope someone as young as 14. The law has pity on the 16 year old who falls for the 14 year old.

            At 16 the brain is not mature enough to consent to sex. It’s not mature enough to sign contracts. I’m an old fashioned fuddy-dud. I’d raise the age of consent to 18.

    2. Forty years later they just voted him senatorial candidate and several times voted him in as a judge. The answer is Yes. Thousands still admire him!

  20. At the “shopping mall”, the most he did was pester a 22 year old by repeatedly asking her out on dates. All the other “rumors” have been refuted. He was never barred from the Mall or YMCA, according to several managers of both places. I’ve posted all this before in detail, especially in my refutations of Faye Gray and the maliciously deceptive New Yorker. (Remember ever New York Times conceded some women were “flattered” and some were turned off by his spiel. Never forget the mother who told her daughter, “I’d say you were the luckiest girl in the world to dating Roy Moore.” Her daughter at 17 actually went out with him several times and described him as a perfect gentleman.

    You know these 14 year old girls describing being afraid to look to Moore’s eyes at the Mall and running and hiding, because he was “icky” and “creepy”, kind of reminds me of how the three little kids in Maycomb Alabama fled from Boo Radley in “To Kill a Mockingbird.” Of course, the 6 foot West Point Grad Vietnam War Veteran who stared at them like a Drill Instructor probably scared the bejesus out of the immature ones. A friend of mine reminded me of how the teen groupies squealed when a Rock Star walked downtown. Well, for a small town like Gadsden, Roy Moore, Class President, West Point, boxer, athlete, War Veteran, Lawyer, might have made some of those younguns squeal, too. He was that town’s Rock Star. And some liked him and some were jealous, envious, repulsed, found him too old and “icky”, some were indifferent, and some thought “he’d make a good husband” and their daughters dating him were”the luckiest girls in the world.”

    2. But, I don’t want to end this weekend on an argumentative note.

    Please re-read that Captain’s assessment of Roy Moore’s character when he was in Vietnam. (That’s one adult man, an officer, assessing another officer’s character during a tour of duty in Vietnam; not the hysterics of teens touring a modern American Mall (or working there) with too much time on their hands and nothing better to do than gossip, giggle and sprout gibberish . . . the immature teens, I mean, as many immature adults oftentimes do too. Tongues will wag . . .

    3. Then to end on an Upbeat, Positive Note, please consider this:

    Here are two heartfelt, heart-warming messages of THANKSGIVING, from two men (Ben Stein and Bernard Darty) who obviously are blessed with the spiritual gifts of GRATITUDE and MAGNANIMITY:

    Ben Stein: https://spectator.org/my-thanksgiving-list/

    Bernard Darty: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/11/25/holocaust-survivor-im-giving-1-million-to-help-wounded-american-veterans-to-express-my-thanks.html

    But glad you read the article by

    1. I hate to sound brash or uncouth, but a whorehouse in Nam during those years might be the last place on earth I would zip down my fly. I have seen the films and pictures of men’s cranks with something between tartar sauce and a banana daiquiri dripping from it. His discretion was one of a man that knows where NOT to dip his jumbo. My apologies to those on here with growing grimaces as they read this.

      This is not an assault on Roy but rather a rebuttal of the good Captains appraisal of his character based on a wise decision. And through all this, the odor in the brothel, a factor in some people’s decision to remain within the door jams of those kinds of places, was never discussed.

      1. Ever hear of condoms? I guess the other officers and American military personnel who staid there did not find it odiferous. They stayed! The officer who drove them there stayed and said he’d get a ride back to base with others.

        How do you know it stunk? You say the odor wasn’t mentioned. The temperature wasn’t mentioned either. The color of the walls wasn’t mentioned. The fragrance, incense, opium, wasn’t mentioned either. So, what?

        His fellow officer who was there is giving first hand testimony of Roy Moore walking away from readily available temptation, while other officers stayed and indulged. Both he and I find it very telling. His fellow officer said he was with Moore for 4 months in Danang and attests to his strong moral character.

        Your rebutal is based on pure speculation.

          1. Resorting to ad hominem attacks is usually the last resort of someone who has lost a debate. The truth hurts, doesn’t it.

        1. “Ever hear of condoms?”

          Yes. I have several friends that live in them in Fairfax.

          Ignore the pathetic comment. It was premature.

  21. Yellowhammernews is a conservative Alabama website covering politics, sports, breaking news, business, etc.

    The day after Thanksgiving it published an “Open Letter” from an officer who served with Roy Moore in Vietnam. It contains a very “telling” anecdote.

    http://yellowhammernews.com/featured/roy-moores-war-buddy-knew-altogether-honorable-decent-respectable-patriotic-commander-soldier/

    As of this morning, the Washington Post still has not mentioned it! Rarely do the Post, New Yorker, NBC, CNN, Boston Globe mention exculpating information about anyone they choose to crucify.

    1. But isn’t a 40+ year old story unreliable? In the heat of battle lots could be confabulated. After all, a war zone is a most stressful place. I doesn’t have he casual and quite ambiance of say, a shopping mall.

  22. P. S.
    Leigh Corfman says she first met Roy Moore at the Courthouse on February 21. He called her “a few days later” that would be Friday or Saturday: He didn’t pick her up on Friday: there was light drizzle and light rain from 4:00 P.M. onward; Saturday night it rained for an hour, does she remember that? Couldn’t have picked her up Sunday night (it’s snowing, ice pellets, freezing rain); can’t pick her up Monday either, when the wind chill drops to 31F by 11 P.M.
    So, when were the first and second “dates” and when was the final phone call? The WaPo says the first call came “a few day later” after 2/21; they agreed where and when to meet; “soon after”, there’s a second call and a second meeting arranged; sometime “later” there’s a third and final call.
    After either the first or second meeting (alleged “date”) she tells her friends about “seeing an older man.”?
    So eliminating the day she went to her father’s and probably one, two or three nights before (not time for a second date and sometime later a third/final phone call) and considering 3 or 4 days of bad weather, or at least weather one might recall and note: “For example, I remember it was raining, sleeting, or freezing cold when he picked me and or dropped me off”) that leaves about five days to get two dates, three phone calls and time to tell her high school friends she was “seeing someone.” It’s possible. It’s also possible it didn’t happen.

    If you were on a jury, would you have reasonable doubts?

    After reading both this post and the post above (and all my posts), do you have any doubts? Remember, 12 Angry Men, at first only one man doubted.

    Or would you agree with the Queen of Hearts, “Off with his head”?

  23. Like most liberal MSM operations, the Washington Post is again proven to be completely corrupt:

    Remember it’s story about February 21, 1979, at the Gadsden Courthouse, and the custody case. Here’s what the Post didn’t tell you:

    According to multiple sources:

    (1) The Washington Post failed to tell readers that at that February 21, 1979, court case Leigh Corfman’s mother, Mrs. Wells, in a jointly signed petition with her ex-husband, Robert Corfman, voluntarily gave up custody of Leigh to her father, who lived 20 miles away. Leigh’s parents had been divorced since 1974. “The custody case was amicable and involved a joint petition by both parents.”

    Worse, the Post also did not tell readers that 14-year-old Leigh Corfman was to move to her father’s house starting on March 4, 1979. (Feb 21 was a Wednesday, March 4 Sunday.)

    Questions arise. Since her father lived in Ohatchee, 20 miles away from Gadsden, and would stay there until October 1980, did she change schools; did she voluntarily go there before March 4?

    (2) But the story gets worse: Remember how the Washing Post said Leigh consistently told the same story during all six comprehensive interviews, AND the Post said its research was exhaustive. Remember, how the Post reported that after the incident with Moore her life turned bad, to alcohol, drugs, boyfriends and a suicide attempt at 16. Well, here’s the real truth, which the Post knew and was easily ascertained by (1) looking at the documents it retrieved from the Gadsden Court House and (2) doing a bit more research (doing due diligence, the law calls it.)

    The Court Order said the reason the mother lost custody was because Leigh was already suffering from “behavioral and discipline problems.” Therefore, before ever meeting Roy Moore, she was a documented teen menace, a troubled child or trouble-maker, out of control.

    (3) But the Washington Post and she said things worsened after she met Moore. There’s another court document, written 15 months later, however, that says her behavioral and disciplinary problems had decreased so substantially (under her father’s care) that the Court decided she may resume living with her mother in October 1980. In other words, the mother regains custody because Leigh is now behaving, is no longer having disciplinary problems, is improving, not deteriorating as she told the WaPo and as the WaPo told us. The Court in May 1980 allowed maternal custody to resume in October 1980 .(Presumably neither the father nor school nor anyone else reported “worsening” behavioral problems between May and October, or the Court may have rescinded or revised the order.)

    3. Did Leigh, Wells and WaPo collude to defame? Funny the WaPo couldn’t find this second court document, isn’t it? Funny it didn’t report the “facts” about the first court document. Funny it spun and covered everything up that contradicted its preconceived notions. No not funny! Gross negligence, hardly; much more like intentional defamation. The WaPo has lost all credibility.

    4. Finally, the original Court Order granting custody to the father said the mother could have “visitation rights” every second weekend. If that went into effect immediately, the first weekend would’ve been March 17-18, 1979, far beyond any time frames the Post was reporting.

    Now I ask you? I the Court just gave you limited visitation rights, would you risk losing those visitation rights between Februry 21 and March 4, by allowing your 14 year old daughter to go out at night, on her own? If she said she was going to a friend’s house wouldn’t you check, call, drop her off, pick her up?

    The bottom line here is the Washington Post deliberately concealed, fabricated and distorted the facts in this case. So, too, apparently, did Leigh Corfman and her mother!

    5. Here’s some original quotes from the Washington Post:eported:

    “After talking to her friends, Corfman says, she began to feel that she had done something wrong and kept it a secret for years.” Kept it a secret for about 12-15 years when Roy Moore was becoming “prominent” as a judge. She apparently only told her friends she was “seeing an older man”, and one said she mentioned Roy Moore. She apparently did not tell them she’d been disrobed and groped, although one recalls “as a teenager” she mentioned seeing his “tight white underpants.” Did she?

    The Washington Post reported:
    “I felt responsible,” she says. “I felt like I had done something bad. And it kind of set the course for me doing other things that were bad.” She says that her teenage life became increasingly reckless with drinking, drugs, boyfriends, and a suicide attempt when she was 16.”

    The Court Documents say the opposite.

    Of course, it may be true that after returning to the custody of her mother, Mrs. Wells, who got remarried sometime along the road in the early 1980s, her behavioral problems returned. But if they did, we can safely conclude that it nothing to do with Roy Moore, because 20 months under her father’s care, her behavior returned to normalcy. From juvenile delinquency, from “behavioral and disciplinary” problems that both parents attested to in court and the court found she was experiencing before she ever met Roy Moore, she had cleaned up her act sufficiently that the Court returned her to the custody of her mother in October 1980.

    And you didn’t read that in the Washington Post, did you?

  24. Wa-llahi! The Mueller probe is getting closer to Glorious Leader everyday. Huff Post reports that Flynn has rolled on Trump. We”ll be seeing some action by x-mass . In the few last days Hillary Clinton has been calling for a do-over of the 2016 election. Her thought is that Russian interference destroyed the integrity of the 2016 US election process, therefore, a new election is in order. If the 25th amendment is used to get Trump out, the Republicans retain the WH. Impeachment also would leave the WH in Republican hands. Nope, the Clintons are right, a whole new national election is needed.

  25. RAM DASS:
    ‘JUST WALKING EACH OTHER HOME.’

    DAVID: Because you’ve been such an influence on a whole generation, I asked other writers what questions I should ask you in this interview. The one I’ve chosen is from Tom Stella, who was a Catholic priest for many years and now is an author and teacher of spirituality from his base in Colorado. Tom said, “Ask him about the line that I’ve repeated—and I’m sure lots of others have as well. Ram Dass says, ‘We’re all just walking each other home.’ Ask him to talk about that line.’”

    When reading your new book, Tom’s question jumped out at me because one of the first sub-chapters is called “The Road Home.” So, please, talk about what you mean in this metaphor.

    RAM DASS: Well, “home” is the one. It’s God. When I went into psychedelics, I had an experience where I felt everything being stripped away from my self. I was in my heart, my spiritual heart. All I could say was: “I’m home. I’m home. I’m home inside.”

    Then, when I went to India, my guru looked at me with unconditional love. And I remember that as: “I’m home. I’m home. I’m home.”

    We all spend so much time living in this outer world, then we encounter things that force us into our inner world. The inner world is what I consider to be home.

    In “walking each other home,” I’m talking about how we as individuals—individual persons or individual countries with all of the separation that we experience—through moving toward inner consciousness, can become one. That’s a shift in consciousness. If we can find a way to walk each other home, we could reach a point where there is no more conflict between egos and nations.

    https://www.umojacorporation.org/our-approach/restorative-justice/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5rbzqtjV1wIVmIqzCh1rcQ2yEAAYASAAEgKYLPD_BwE

    Restorative Justice
    Transforming high schools is as much about culture and climate as it is about curriculum. Two things are clear — if schools are going to increase academic achievement, we must reduce conflict to keep students in the classroom and retain quality teachers.

    Umoja’s Restorative Justice (RJ) model creates the conditions for both students and adults to successfully reach their academic goals by restoring conflicts and reducing disciplinary infractions. Through RJ, students learn critical social, emotional, and behavioral skills and teachers are better positioned to deliver high quality instruction.

    “Instead of just getting suspended or getting punished, we work to figure out why this conflict is happening, which keeps students from getting in the same sort of issues. When students work out their issues, they don’t get in fights, they don’t get suspended, and they don’t miss school.”
    Starnica Rodgers,
    Manley student
    RESEARCH AND IMPACT
    Restorative justice programs and practices have been shown in multiple schools and districts nationally to reduce suspensions and violence (Dignity in Schools, 2012). Keeping students in school matters:

    Students who are suspended even once are more likely to drop out of school (Medill Reports Chicago, 2011).
    Young people who drop out of high school, many of whom have been on a path of suspensions prior to leaving school, are more than eight times as likely to be incarcerated as those who graduate (Advancement Project, 2010).
    A 1% increase in high school graduation rates saves approximately $1.4 billion in costs associated with incarceration (Lochner & Moretti, 2003).
    Through implementation of Umoja’s RJ model out-of-school suspensions across our 4 RJ partner schools decreased an average of 11% and higher level infractions decreased, ranging from 7% to 70% decreases

    WHAT RESTORATIVE JUSTICE LOOKS LIKE
    Umoja focuses on the school as a strategic arena for the prevention, intervention and interruption of community conflict and violence. Reducing suspensions and disciplinary infractions keeps students in school where we have the opportunity to teach skills, influence positive choices and prevent issues that may otherwise turn into a vicious cycle of harm and retaliation. Umoja utilizes a whole school Restorative Justice model, which includes:

    Strategic planning with Administrators and school leaders on restorative justice, discipline and behavior systems
    A Peace Room which serves as a hub for restorative practices and interventions including: Peace Circles, Mediations, Restorative Chats & Re-entry Circles
    A disciplinary intervention curriculum which teaches critical social-emotional & leadership skills
    Professional development for teachers and school staff
    Read the story of just one student’s transformation due to RJ at his school.

    Watch
    Documentaries produced by students during Community Builders
    Read
    more about Umoja’s RJ program and why it matters

  26. No , protect them , not protect *him . The fact that he propositioned a sixteen year old and that , as you noted , her mother uttered an emphatic ” No ” is alarming . If you really ” know the game ” then apparently you have not anything yet to learn about the game. I do know that forty years is no barrier to truth . I have an open mind as to whether or not he is or was an ogre with the Girl Scouts . To expect that you , having substituted sceptical subjective judgement for open mindedness about their claims and called it ” Science “, have really presented a compelling case to the jury in the judge’s defense , is really expecting too much . Your Welcome , btw .

    1. John, interesting how you select words: You write “he propositioned” a sixteen year old as “a fact.”
      What did he proposition her to do. The fact is her mother worked in the Photo Shop in the Mall. A few times the 16 year old was with her mother. In the presence of both, he asked the mother if he could take her daughter out on a date. Was he teasing? Joshing? If the mother said, Yes, would he have taken her out? Neither you nor I know the answer to those questions.

      Yet you state as a fact that he “propositioned” a sixteen year old. You know what that word connotes salaciousness.

      Yet the three 17, 18, 19 year olds he did date, say the most he did was “kiss them”. Read also the “testimony” of the Captain who served with Moore in Vietnam. (I’ve posted it below, I think.)

      As for science. There’s a scientific field called psychiatry; I’m familiar with it. When I was studying medicine, I had a 10-week summer fellowship in Community Psychiatry. It was a field I was interested in, and took other courses and rotations in it, but eventually switched from medicine to Public Health (where I did a lot of work in Environmental Science) and finally to law. (Where I did environmental law, administrative law and first amendment law.)

      But Psychiatrists know there’s such a thing as CONFABULATION.

      Beyond that, the recent evidence from the court, shows that Leigh Corfman was having psychiatric behavioral and disciplinary problems before she ever met Roy Moore. The court ordered her removed from her mother and placed with her father for 20 months because of those very problems. It’s stated in the court documents, both parents signed. The mother had lost control of her! After 16 months with her father, her “behaviors” improved, her mother petitioned to regain custody in May 1980, so the Court reinstated custody with her mother beginning in October 1980. (I’ve explained this below.)

      What does that tell us? It tells us she’s been fabricating her story, which essentially was since the alleged “incident” with Moore, her life took a tailspin; In fact, 12 days after she met Moore (2.21.79), she was in her father’s custody (in his house 20 miles from Gadsden) and she stayed there for 20 months; the Court found, held, and decided “as a matter of fact” based on all the evidence that her behavior had improved. Not deteriorated as she’d told the Washington Post and everyone in America. In fact the Post knew this! They too deceived the American people. Jeff Bezos’s paper deliberately , maliciously deceived the American people, in my opinion.

      You can accept 40 year old stories as “fact”; the reason the Law does not is because learned men and women (lawyers, psychiatrists, philosophers, parents, politicians) got together and created Laws to govern us. And they said in Alabama like they said in almost every state, if you are 14 and alleging that someone over 19 sexually assaulted you, or groped you, you have 3 years to bring a criminal complaint and 7 years (by age 21) to bring a civil suit.
      That’s a fact.

      Now you want to throw stones at someone based on unproven and likely unprovable stories that are full of holes, distortions, fabrications and out-right contradictions.

      We all have witnessed what the Massachusetts Courts and Press did with the Probation Officers, the Veterans who ran the South Boston St. Patrick’s Day Parade, and what other courts and media did in the Duke LaCrosse Case, and the Tawana Brawley case, etc, etc. In those cases, the facts, science and law was twisted to publicly condemn, indict, prosecute and impugn the character of good people . . . .
      and these were cases with contemporary evidence, not 40 year old evidence.

      And when I was practicing law, I’ saw personally in the Environment Areas, where I specialized, Courts and Lawyers twisting facts and deceiving, and stipulating to facts then arguing against stipulated facts in courtrooms, and judges being handed the stipulated facts and ignoring them, and ignoring controlling case law, and newspapers ignoring facts, science and law . . . Yes, I’ve played the game, and I’ve seen it all, and I know how vicious the press and mob mentality can be.

      I was co-counsel on one case that we won a unanimous decision at the United States Supreme Court after 16 Massachusetts judges (including judges on the States Supreme Judicial Court, Appeals Court, Trial Courts, and Administrative Law judges) had all decided against us (all but one; one judge of integrity in all of Massachusetts).

      And do you know what a unanimous US Supreme Court wrote in its 9-0 decision? It wrote, “The Massachusetts judiciary acted without lawful authority.”

      Imagine an entire State’s judicial system had acted without lawful authority for over three years. And guess who fully supported this unlawfully acting judiciary? The Boston Globe and almost every newspaper, media outlet, politician, law office and legal academic in Massachusetts, including the Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts. They all conspired to crush a handful of Veterans constitutional rights. And they twisted Law, Fact, and Reason to do so.

      So, I look hard when the leftist Media, politicians, try to gang-bang a West Point grad, Vietnam Veteran, with traditional Christian values. Very hard! And I’m skeptical because I know how they skewer and crucify innocent folks. And before passing judgement, I wait until all the “facts” are in, and “both sides” have a “fair chance” of presenting their versions of events.

      It took over three years before one court, 9 justices of the US Supreme Court, finally understood the true “facts” and “law” of our case.

      It took nearly two years, as I recall, before the Duke Lacrosse players were exonerated.

      It took nearly three years, I think, before the Massachusetts Probation Officers were exonerated.

      Yet, you are willing to condemn a man in two week based on 40 year old allegations of two very troubled teens.

      I guess you’d want to stone 16 year old Elizabeth Taylor for dating a 24 year old West Point grad NFL player; or for being engaged to a 28 year old man at 17; or for “seeing” 40 year old Howard Hughes at 17-18 (he propositioned her, I mean proposed marriage); how about stoning Elizabeth Taylor for marrying a 40 year old man at 18; or for being divorced at 19, then marrying another 40 year old at 20. (Or would you just want to stone the men: William Pawley, Conrad Hilton Jr., Howard Hughes, etc.

      Did you know the median age for marriage in 1960 was 20 years old? (Today it’s over 26.) Did you know that in 1970 in was still less that 21. When do you think they started courting? Do you think one percent or five percent actually married men 15 years or older. You know about Elvis? And, what’s his name, Jerry Steinfeld? Would you stone them to death, too?

      How about stoning to death all those men 30 and over who took a 16, 17 or 18 year old out to lunch or dinner in the 1970s, when the drinking age was 18. Like a boss or friend of the family or just a good decent ordinary man, who publicly asked her mother, and kissed her once or twice. Nothing more; nothing less!

      How about stoning to death everyone who looked at the Playboy Models who were centerfolds at 16 (one) 17 (three plus nine more appeared) and 18 year-olds (many.)

      Conversely, now, how about stoning to death everyone who has falsely accused another, but only if corroborated by documentary evidence (court decrees) or scientific evidence (DNA, fingerprint, psychiatric expert testimony ) or eyewitness corroboration?

      Roy Moore has lived 70 years. A 14 year old and 16 year old allege he did something criminal 40 years ago. He denies it. Their stories have gaping holes in them based on past histories, psychological profiles, inconsistencies, and on hardcore documentary evidence: (Court Records which contradict much of Leigh Corfman’s story; and an apparently forged yearbook which contradicts Beverly Nelson’s story, in part.) Contradictions create doubt!

      1. Nope … Have no desire to ” gangbang ” or be party to such as concerns the judge . Does ” proposition ” connote salacious intent as you suggest ? Could a less semantically suggestive word such as tease or josh have been employed to describe this perfectly harmless overture ? Well , was it harmless ? .

        Irritating to have you pontificating to me , who has always been sceptical when it comes to the machinations of the FBI , and who has pointed out numerous illogical and purely fabricated features of the James Bulger … Epic . I doubt not your iconoclasm , wit , or legal acumen . Spare me the character assassination of placing all who would simply like a full and honest hearing of the facts , a reconciliation of a preponderance of witnesses and accounts with the denial by the Judge , and the Truth to out , with those who want to ” gangbang ” the good judge . Leigh Corfmann is not attempting to sponsor a gay float in our beloved St. Patrick’s Day parade. It is a self- aggrandizing and ill drawn comparison.

        Basically , Counselor , you view Corfmann as a sort of hitman doing a number on Ray Moore ; confabulating after a span of forty years. Here is the difference , after forty years : Leigh Corfmann , aside from what documentary evidence can be produced , has to trust that a jury or a public will offer some benefit of doubt. Unlike the Hitman , there is no hard forensic evidence that only the hitter would know . This does not change after forty years. It is a different caliber of experience . Yes, Corfmann may be … Confabulating … unintentionally giving an inaccurate account based on memory. But at this point it seems more likely that you are simply … Gaslighting … her . You would have us believe she is crazy. And yet , the stridency of your denunciation of her , the emotionalism of phraseology that has the Judge as the victim of a gangbang , and an overall tone of condescension that anyone could … Possibly … believe Corfmann , indicates to me that you know she is not crazy . Methinks the Counselor doth protest too much .

  27. False on very count, John KIng; as if you’ve read none of my posts.
    Protect him from? A mother called her daughter “the luckiest girl in the world” to be dating Judge Moore. Six of the alleged “accusers” allege ZERO HARM! A seventh is a likely 28 year old fabricator. The 8th’s story is full of holes. And the 9th’s is a clear confabulation, which has changed over 15 years from when first told.

    Mothers loved to have their daughters date a West Point Grad, War Veteran (Vietnam), lawyer, bachelor. Did you read about Elizabeth Taylor?

    Roy Moore has a stellar reputation, not one complaint filed, admit his worst critics, during his entire life. (Except for the 22 year who alleges she told the Mall Manager he was pestering her, but two Mall Managers deny that. Never received a complaint, they say. The YMCA manager: Never received a complaint!!! The Police: Never received a complaint.

    Do you think in 1985 Kayla Kiser, a 24-year old beauty queen, would marry him if he had a bad reputation.

    I’ve read right through all the false, twisted stories in the New Yorker, Washington Post, New York Times, and heard the edited, rehearsed interviews on NBC, CNN etc, and in my humble opinion, these 40 year old stories are as phony as a three-dollar bill.

    Yes, I see them through both a “learned” counsel’s eye (thank you) and a scientist’s eye. I’ve defended others wrongfully accused. I know the game. I don’t fall for stale 40 year old stories, rumors and triple-hearsay.

    Thank you

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