The Catholic Church and Gay Priests: Is That The Problem? Should They Be Thrown Out? 1 of 2

The ongoing dilemma – well its more than a dilemma I suppose – the ongoing troubles in and with the Catholic Church an institution of which I am a member is the continuing exposure of the past abuse of minors by the members of the clergy, the priests, and the hiding or covering up of that abuse by the bishops and cardinals. Here in Boston we had Cardinal Bernard Law who had a stellar reputation who some looked upon as a potential first American Pope. He was not accused of abusing any child or young adult; his wrong was that he covered up that abuse.

Yes, he had cover for his cover-up. He could point to psychiatrists, psychologist, or lawyers who told him the abuser priests had been cured and were no longer a danger to the children. Be that as it may, the idea that he would tolerate one priest abusing a child in the first place was something he could never justify.

His blindness to his permissiveness in allowing such priests to return to positions where they could abuse more children for the sake of saving the Church embarrassment resulted in opening a real Pandora’s Box. From it flowed and continues to flow the countess stories of sexual sins against children by priests throughout the nation and the world. Like with the box that Pandora opened when the lid was put back on what remains is hope; a hope the bleeding stops and the Church does not die the death of a thousand cuts from the ongoing scandals and can recapture its beauty.

In Pennsylvania a grand jury reported up to 400 priests in six diocese abused more than one thousand children. Yes, grand juries have many faults as the prominent defense attorney Al Johnson and others pointed out in comments to this blog. Yes, the figures may have been highly exaggerated. Even so, many in the Church accept those figures recognizing the Church opened itself up to this scandal by perpetuating the harm. I’ve read that at least four more attorney generals in other states are going to follow Pennsylvania’s example .

There is no way the Church can stop this damning publicity. It will continue drop by drop until what? Or until when? What then is the purpose of these continuing exposés?

Do we need to see more priestly sins against the children? Do we need to know more about how those in the upper echelons of the church hid and abetted these actions? Only if going into the past discovers and roots out priests or bishops who are still active who have been involved in these matters does it make sense but judging from Pennsylvania we can expect little of that.

Whatever its purpose or whatever the outcome it will add very little to our knowledge. We know what happened in the Church. I assume most if not almost all will agree there were many priests who abused many children. They will agree that their actions were abetted by and covered up by those above them.

What we need is for the Church to ensure that it never happens again. Not so much that no priest will ever abuse a child again, for is that is impossible; but to ensure that upon discovery that priest will be cast out of the Church expeditiously upon proof of the wrongdoing.

How then does the Church ensure there will be no future cover-ups? This brings me to the question of gay priests. Is this possible to do if gays are members of the priesthood?

We have seen that Cardinal Theodore McCarrick engaged in gay sex with young seminarians. This was well-known in the Church. Yet he went on year after year rising in prominence. His actions were reported to Pope John Paul II but he was not deterred from giving McCarrick his cardinal’s cap. We learned as recently as Sunday that a complaint that a “current priest in the Diocese of Paterson, N.J., allegedly had seduced an 18-year-old man from Lasch’s parish in the mid-1980s was ignored.” 

There are some who assert: “Most of the abusers were homosexual priests abusing adolescent males.” Santa Clara University psychologist Dr. Thomas G. Plante who has spent more than 30 years researching and treating psychological issues among Catholic clergy and laypersons would disagree. He avers: “It’s perfectly understandable that people could be confused by this, because we know that 80 percent or more of the clerical sexual abuse victims are boys. So people conclude that if you get rid of homosexuals in the clergy, then you’ve got the problem solved. And it doesn’t work that way.” 

He says most of the abusers are “situational generalists.”  Generalists do not have a specific sexual preference for youth, but instead “turn to children as a sort of substitute.”  They seek readily available victims. “Priests for the most part had access to boys, and trust with boys, much more so than girls,” Plante said, noting that this proximity has led to the erroneous correlation between homosexuality and clerical abuse.

Cardinal Raymond Burke has a different view. It was clear after the studies following the 2002 sexual abuse crisis that most of the acts of abuse were in fact homosexual acts committed with adolescent young men. There was a studied attempt to either overlook or to deny this. Now it seems clear in light of these recent terrible scandals that indeed there is a homosexual culture, not only among the clergy but even within the hierarchy, which needs to be purified at the root. It is of course a tendency that is disordered. . . . I believe that there needs to be an open recognition that we have a very grave problem of a homosexual culture in the Church, especially among the clergy and the hierarchy, that needs to be addressed honestly and efficaciously.”

What then to do?

 

33 thoughts on “The Catholic Church and Gay Priests: Is That The Problem? Should They Be Thrown Out? 1 of 2

  1. Matt:

    Something bugging you ? … Buggery is the issue. The English Public School System not so long ago had a hallowed tradition of buggery …. A British slang for Sodomy ( with a capital ” S ” ) … Chris Hitchens writes of his homosexual crushes and those he crushed, in his Public School, in his autobiography.

    Muslim men … especially those employed in the Afghan Military have an equally ardent regard for buggering young boys. An American Marine was demoted under Obama in the second term because he stopped the rape of a twelve year old boy by an Afghan soldier.

    Well, What to do ? What to do ?

    Your premise, that basically the Church is a hothouse homosexual culture that holds and molds the predatory in a Clerical Disneyland of debauched and depraved delights is —– A hell of a good premise !

    Good Luck with that one, Matt !

  2. I was and still am personal friends with two men who attended St John’s Seminary in Boston back in the 60’s and early ’70s. Both stated that while at the seminary there were a number of seminarians and some priests who actively engaged in homosexual behavior at St. John’s and formed “an active subculture” within the seminary. One of these men left the seminary after 3 or 4 years because of this environment, and the other almost left and, while acknowledging this as a “problem” for the Church, stuck it out and has been a very successful Catholic priest for the past 40-50 years. There is nothing new about homosexuality within the priesthood.

    I have been a member of two Boston-area parishes where priests were removed (not just transferred) from the priesthood because of abusive acts against adolescent boys. We need the truth about this horrendous scandal. The Pope’s solution of “silence” is not only pure baloney, it is also a self-indictment. He knew. And as they say about Hollywood in re the H. Weinstein scandal, I believe THEY ALL KNEW .. and still know.

  3. Matt
    you must know by now that the only
    reason I post here is to make the voter
    and taxpayer a smart criminal justice
    consumer.

    After all we fund the criminal justice
    system crime family and as such we
    are the owners and primary consumers.
    Of course everything said here is always
    done within the context of “ how can
    I contribute to the psychological evolution
    of the human species “

    After all you always remind us that we are only
    as high as the people we hang out with.
    They can only take us to where their consciousness
    is.

    First let me say you make the classic homophobic
    error of equating homosexuality with pedophilia.
    Secondly you show us how far removed you are
    from Christ in your inability to practice unconditional
    love.

    Thirdly you expose to us your angst as you get ready
    to throw off your mortal coil and are having second
    thoughts about your catholic tribal leaders.

    fourthly you have lived a long and prosperous
    lifetime
    and you still have no clues as to the meaning of life

    ugh!

    from a never writer
    to ever readers, newes

    1. Now Ms. !!! … King Tut – Tut – Tut !!! … Matt may have been kicked off Future World Diversity Island with only tickets to the the racial discrimination suit that Asian American students are bringing against the bowtied Culture Clouseaus at Harvard who are accepting less qualified students to serve the agenda of– Harvard Advocates Racial Parity–aka HARP … And yet !!!

      You lay a charge, not humorously and with the charming use of adjectives like “anachronistic,” as I did , of Matt being … YESTERDAY’S MAN ! …. The charge is emotional. The intent to wound on a psychic and spiritual level is apparent. The punishment — Consignment to some sort of actuarial rubble pile — is not mete ( if you will excuse the expression) to the crime — that our wily Bolton of the Bulger blog is absolutely flummoxed at a Roman Catholic Church culture that is … by the nature of the “Beast ” …. intensely homo , or man, centric. The rest is history and this history is not one that some Maine Methodist with a messianic message and a lifetime devoted to everyone else’s …. Ugh …. except the Ugh-liness within … gets to beat old Matt and the rest of the Bingo players over the head with !

      Screw whether you call the priest a pedophile when the Altar Boy is 12 and a pederast the next year when the boy turns thirteen. This is nonsense. The Church has got a Fever !!!! As Al Gore would say.

      Celibacy is fine so long as religious vows are maintained and the honor, and decency of the Catholic Priesthood is upheld by its sacerdotes!

      Root and branch the damaged must be ripped from the field . This is happening.

      Ask not for whom the Bell tolls, It tolls for thee !!!

      Done and Donne !!!

      1. That’s what I meant to say. Too many defenders are overlooking the crime and are splitting pubic hairs on this one. Or lack of.

        Maybe someone can do a Remote Viewing of Pope Clement VII and report back on his conduct in general. I’d pay for the honest annotation of his reign.

      2. John, excellent commentary and I second your riposte to MSFREEH, who’s been barking up her misanthropic disdainful ante-deluvian trees of disinformation for far too long . . .you made her heel, the high-heeled heel;

        John, I’d call your post, your retort, your riposte, a well deserved counter, a counter-punch to her ridiculous punch & judy commentary . . .a knock out . . .the bell rung . . .the fights over . . .MSFREEH’s down and out . . .you kicked the stuffin’ outta ‘er with a few choice brilliant strokes of the pen . . .

        2. the problem is men in clerical garb raping boys and adolescents (80% of cases) . . .the other 20% are men in clerical garb raping, assaulting girls (pre-18, say.) In all cases, Houston, we have a problem . . .

        The good news: The problem of abuse and cover-up has been exposed . . . .the Catholic Church today is the safest place for a child . . . .a thorough airing of that problem in Churches, YMCAs, Public Schools, Boy Scouts, Hollywood, MEDIA (where newsboys are employed) and every Institution in America should now be undertaken.

        Scientific Statistical, Epidemiologic Data must be brought to bear on the Problem and the Solution . . . Let’s start by understanding it is not a problem of heterosexual men who are interested in the Playboy Model body type, 18-24, as the Ancient Greeks and Romans were two and three thousand years ago: See: The Museum of Fine Arts’ “Aphrodite and the Gods of Love” by Christine Kondoleon with Phoebe C. Segal.

        I’ll post a recent British (BBC, I recall) article that aptly states the present situation. Pedophile is pre-adolescent; Pedarast is men sexually attracted to boys (adolescents). Evil is Priests, Teachers, Coaches, Doctors molesting, abusing, raping young persons.

        Matt quotes a doc who is muddying the waters by inventing a new category and claiming when a man rapes an adolescent boy it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a homosexual . . . O.K. Doc, let’s just all agree he’s engaged in a homosexual act of homosexual rape, and you can fine-tune and spin the psycho-babble until your face turns blue . . .the point is for Society to deter these men, out them, punish them, isolate them . . . .

        In case you didn’t know: Sex is good among consenting adults. Viz: The Vintage Teddy Bear Lounge’s Las Vegas Review. Sex is how we all got here.

        Music is good, too.

        I think I’ll re-post this to Matt’s today’s column, too.

        1. Bill:

          Thankyou ! …. Your clarifyin’ remarks are also appreciated ! …Matt was sighted at the Arch St. Shrine early this morning carrying a Lamp … We’ll let him know where to find you !

  4. Equating gays to pedophiles is ridiculous. They need to stop allowing PEDOPHILES to enter the priesthood. The Catholic Church has lost all credibility. No one should look to it for moral guidance.

  5. I am normally not a “conspiracy theorist” but please the numbers of “damnable priests”
    (What other term can be used for sexual abusers?) does raise a disturbing question. For example, before the enormous world wide cocaine problem of the seventies… in fact, years before, wealthy South American land owners began to purchase huge tracts of land and began cocaine production… long before a market was established. Was the devil filling the ranks of the church expecting these results? Give (h)im his due?

  6. From: Psychology Today:

    1. Pedophilia

    Definition: Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with children who are generally age 13 years or younger.

    2. Adolescence

    Definition: Adolescence typically describes the years between ages 13 and 19 and can be the transitional stage from childhood to adulthood.

    The vast majority (90 +) of reported abuse cases against priests have been sexual abuse of male adolescents. So why don’t all you PC warriors get your definitions straight and stop pretending that “pedophilia” is involved here. 90% + of these abuse charges are homosexual attacks by homosexual priests. And every one in the priesthood knows this.

  7. Matt
    Your question about throwing out priests for
    sticking their penises in young children’s mouths
    is like saying we should shut down the FBI
    because J Edgar Hoover had president Kennedy,
    Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy assassinated.

    in other newes….

    http://www.tmz.com/2018/09/11/secret-service-carole-cook-assassination-comment-donald-trump-john-wilkes-booth/

    SECRET SERVICE
    SO, CAROLE COOK …
    What’d You Mean by ‘Where’s John Wilkes Booth When You Need Him?’

    9/11/2018 12:50 AM PDT

    also see

    https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/FBI-agent-sued-in-death-of-Houston-kidnap-hostage-13218708.php

    FBI Agent Sued in Botched Mission to Rescue Hostage in Houston

    An FBI agent who shot and killed a hostage during a botched rescue mission in Houston in January has been sued.

    also see

    https://www.muckrock.com/news/archives/2018/sep/10/fbi-drone-use/

    September 10, 2018
    FBI had trouble deciding how often it had used it’s drones
    Bureau admitted there were “inconsistencies” in statistics for their UAV program
    Written by Emma Best
    Edited by JPat Brown
    A release of over 400 pages of documents on the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s drone program not only provides a glimpse into the Bureau’s program, they show that the statistics the FBI cited to at least three members of Congress and to an Inspector General inquiry conflict with some of the Bureau’s internal numbers.

    Although an email provides an explanation for one discrepancy and another explanation can be inferred for a different discrepancy, no version of these explanations can properly explain all of the contradictions and inconsistencies.

    The first document, appears to have been both produced and declassified in 2013, cites ten cases in which UAVs were used, for a total of 34 deployments. According to the report, eight of the investigations and 14 of the deployments were for criminal cases, with two national security cases and 20 deployments accounting for the remaining number. The document also notes that three criminal cases “authorized and deployed” UAVs for use, but they were “never flown.”

    1. Ms.

      Shocking language !

      Why reify such an image … Here , let’s give you a ” dope of mind rush ” and quote you : ” Matt, your question about throwing out Priests for sticking their penises in young children’s mouths …..”

      Ahhhh … The Mystery of the Freudian Transubstantiation , noble Freeh !

      You had to image that to cite it .

      AHEM !!!

    1. After a natural disaster the looters come out and grab what they can.

      People in high places have always been targets of slander and false accusations by vindictive adversaries. Then again, isn’t suicide a mortal sin? I have always been told it was. If they would commit that sin maybe they never were as committed to their religion as some thought.

  8. Hi Matt:
    The root of the problem is the vow of celibacy. Two things need to happen: Priests should be allowed to marry, and women should be permitted to become priests. Do this and over time the problem will work itself out. The last thing we need is a rigged witch hunt for gay priests.

    Since this thought just occurred to me, allow me to stray off topic. You were talking the other day about some political races, including veteran Congressman Joe Crowley’s loss to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Crowley’s decisive defeat doesn’t mean his Queens-Bronx district has turned into a socialist paradise. Two non-ideological factors played a very important role in the congressman’s defeat.

    Crowley and his family actually live in upscale Arlington, Va., and have done so for many years. Crowley’s children attended Arlington’s highly regarded public schools. This is a long, long way from Queens and the Bronx. As a voter, this alone would have been a deal breaker for me. Ocasio-Cortez successfully exploited this issue.

    And then there was the “debate.” Crowley agreed to one debate, but sent a “surrogate” instead of showing up himself! The woman he dispatched started talking about herself, and had to be reminded that she was supposed to be Joe Crowley!This was way, way too much hubris for the voters of his district, who justifiably sent him packing.

  9. Catholic priests on steroids

    http://www.journalinquirer.com/archives/accuser-s-unexpected-death-may-end-sex-case-against-ex/article_73fbe278-1466-5d49-a948-50a1338d428f.html

    Accuser’s ‘unexpected’ death may end sex case against ex-FBI agent
    Federal prosecutors have moved to dismiss charges against a former FBI agent from southern Connecticut who was accused of taking a Boy Scout across state lines for illegal sexual activity because of “the sudden and unexpected death” of the accuser.

    https://medium.com/@LoriHandrahan2/cops-and-child-porn-e3494954f255

    Police Trading in Child Rape & Torture
    Girlmeat Hunter
    Gilberto Valle, a 30 year old now former New York City police officer whose on-line name was Girlmeat Hunter, was convicted in March of 2013 of conspiracy to kidnap and illegal access of a federal government database. As a police officer Valle had engaged in on-line arrangements with a man who offered Valle his 3 year old stepdaughter as a sex slave and his two nieces, age 7 and 9, for rape. Valle also discussed plans to murder his wife, saying he would tie up her feet, slit her throat and watch the bloo

    https://www.cnn.com/2012/05/15/justice/ex-fbi-agent-pornography/index.html

    Former top FBI agent charged with child porn distribution
    By Bill Mears, CNN
    Updated 5:04 PM ET, Tue May 15, 2012

        1. Let me finish my haggis first. I’ll get back to you.

          “Fair fo yer honest sonsie face,
          Great chieftan o’ the puddin race….”

  10. Greek Orthodox permit priests to marry. RC could do them one better by encouraging priests to marry each other. Think of the savings at the Parrish level. Two priests for one salary. Double the pleasure, double the fun!

    1. Not kidding. When I think of the outstanding RC priests I’ve met: Bixell, Molloney, the Berigans I didn’t much wonder, if they were gay or straight. What did sexuality have to do with the success of their ministries?

      All tree-jumpers should be prosecuted

  11. Lawyers gave cover to Law? What kind of lawyer counsels a client that, although a felony was committed, its o.k. because they won’t do it again? Had Law turned these felons over to the Justice system, the Church would have saved millions. (As a Charitable Based Organisation, liability would have been limited to @$20,000.00 .) But the cardinal with the vaunted business acumen, compounded the felony and covered- up the crime. Open your wallet.

    1. Hutch, right on, and right on the money. Law, the lawyers and shrinks compounded by problem by covering it up. Sunlight always was the best disinfectant. Rigorous, vigorous honesty.

      Deal it out and let the cards fall where they may.

      Yes, a lot of cardinals and hollywood big wigs bit the dust under the sunlight and when the dust settled, it settled on them.

  12. A smart criminal justice consumer would
    first ask what is the role of physical and
    sexual abuse on a child’s future development
    and the tendencies toward criminal behaviour.

    see

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662280/

    Adverse Childhood Experiences and Adult Criminality: How Long Must We Live before We Possess Our Own Lives?
    James A Reavis, PsyD, Jan Looman, PhD, […], and Briana Rojas

    also see

    https://www.acesconnection.com/g/aces-in-criminal-justice/blog/pipeline-to-prison-may-start-with-childhood-trauma

    Pipeline to Prison May Start with Childhood Trauma | ACEs in the Criminal Justice System | ACEsConnection
    ACEsConnection › blog › pipeline-to-pri…
    Aug 29, 2016 · One area of focus will be the connection between ACEs and the criminal justice system. … Yet the consequences of behavioral problems for children of color, especially

    in other newes

    http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/lifestyle.html

    Serious, Violent, and Habitual Juvenile Offenders, a speech by Andrew H. Vachss: The Zero 5.0laf – The Official Website of Andrew Vachss
    Vachss › av_dispatches › lifestyle
    When discussing the “serious, violent, habitual juvenile offender,” we should attempt … of “juvenile” crime, and that there’s a certain type of kid whom we call the …

    1. “A smart criminal justice consumer would
      first ask what is the role of physical and
      sexual abuse on a child’s future development
      and the tendencies toward criminal behaviour.”

      I think I heard that question coming out of a broken window in a double wide down in Parsons, West Virginia. Every Limerick I was ever yold down there had “He wiped off his chin….” as its third line.

  13. Matt

    do you really expect the police to go after pedophiles
    in the prieshood?

    They have more pressing problems.

    see

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/amber-guyger-fallout-how-common-is-police-crime/569950/

    Amber Guyger Fallout: How Common Is Police Crime?
    The federal government doesn’t track incidents, but I do.
    SEP 11, 2018
    Philip M. Stinson
    Criminologist and Former Attorney

    also see

    https://www.statesman.com/news/state–regional/texas-digest-deputy-arrests-prompt-bexar-sheriff-hire-psychologist/BhhaVUS5zvGkGIiKnoPd0J/

    TEXAS DIGEST: Deputy arrests prompt Bexar sheriff to hire psychologist

    BEXAR COUNTY

    Deputy arrests prompt sheriff to hire psychologist

    A sheriff who’s seen 18 deputies arrested this year on various charges says a staff psychologist will be hired to better screen applicants.

    Bexar County Sheriff Javier Salazar is requesting that county commissioners set aside $118,000 to fund the position.

    Three deputies have been arrested in the past

    also see

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/05/the-57375-years-of-life-lost-to-police-violence/559835/

    In One Year, 57,375 Years of Life Were Lost to Police Violence
    A new study finds police killings exact a toll greater than accidental gun deaths.

    OLGA KHAZAN
    MAY 8, 2018

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