The Quality of Justice is Being Strained: Is Special Counsel Mueller Panicking?

I spent many years in a district attorneys office as the deputy district attorney. I was involved in hundreds of cases by myself and with others that resulted in indictments and arrest warrants.  One of my main functions was overseeing electronic surveillance operations into organized crime and illegal drug activities which usually ended up in raids and indictments. My philosophy,  that of my fellow assistant district attorneys, the state police officers assigned to our office, and the local police officers we worked with was that our job was to investigate crimes and then prosecute them. We were to do it in a professional manner considering the rights of all the citizens of Massachusetts including those we arrested.

We did not believe our job was to punish the person who committed the crime other than making a recommendation to a judge as to what we believed the judge should impose as an appropriate punishment in either plea negotiations or after the trial. The punishment was to be left up to the judges. We did not harass or beat people. When we executed search warrants we analyzed the threat to the police officers who would execute the search and used as much force as we thought necessary for their protection. In the hundreds of raids conducted by detectives assisted by uniform police the normal side arm carried everyday by the men or women was the weapon used. Fortunately in my more than twenty years doing this no law enforcement officer was injured and the raid was carried off successfully and cleanly. By cleanly I meant we left the premises pretty much the way we found it.

I suppose in part we acted that way because the law enforcement officers we worked with also had experience working the streets and interacting with the public. They were not cowboys and respected their fellow citizens even those who committed crime. They had no need for any more excitement in their lives having had plenty.

I don’t know if you recall the case of the Quincy cab driver who happened to come from a Muslim country and was friends with the Tsarnaev brothers. He lived in a small apartment in a multi-apartment residence in that city. I wrote about it previously. He had nothing to do with their dastardly act but cooperated with the FBI. He was questioned several times by the FBI over his relationship with them and incidental other matters relating to it. He wasn’t a terrorist or radical but a plain old work-a-day guy who had a known routine.

At some point a federal grand jury indicted him for some minor crimes. He could have been arrested going to his taxi job or at his job in the morning by two FBI agents without much ado. Instead, about five in the morning a force of armed, SWAT dressed FBI agents carrying military type weapons in black vans arrived at his apartment, broke down the door, and arrested him. Why, I asked. What’s the point?  I saw it as a totally unnecessary action.

Now we see it again. This time there is a CNN video of it. Before dawn 29 FBI agents arrived with 17 vehicles, with their lights flashing   Agents in body armor using large weapons and night-vision equipment descended on the house as if it was the hideout of three gangsters holed up in Florida, Francis “Two-gun” Crowley, “Machine Gun” Kelly, and Elmer “Trigger” Burke. They ran crisscross approaching the house as if expecting incoming fire. They pounded on the door and yelled FBI seeking whoever was in the house to surrender.

They rousted an old guy named Roger Stone who was a threat to no one. They could as easily waited a couple of hours and arrested him at a local coffee shop or on his way to a golf course. Does anyone ask why these tactics more resembling those you would expect from Storm Troopers than America’s premier law enforcement agency are being used? Are we so dumbed down that these things passed unnoticed?

The worst part of it was that those prosecutors in Mueller’s office who sought the arrest warrant lied to the court. They said Roger Stone if not arrested would flee or would destroy or hide evidence. Everyone knows that is BS. Didn’t the judge?

Every other case that I recall brought by the Mueller probe did not result in such an action. Does this express Mueller’s frustration that there is no there there. Is the resort to strong-arm police methods an indication Mueller is in a panic?

Whatever the reason there is no excuse for treating people like this. It’s time prosecutors should remember they represent all of us, even the accused, and treat the person like they would like to be treated.

 

 

 

 

28 thoughts on “The Quality of Justice is Being Strained: Is Special Counsel Mueller Panicking?

  1. To Keating at congress worked with his brother Jim, a Sharon detective

    My wife and I are appalled at the excessive and unneeded force used to affect the arrest of Roger Stone by the FBI and DOJ in Florida this week. That is far more firepower than ever sent to assist Americans in Benghazi. Having worked white collar crimes over my career, I can attest this was an overreach that could have been accomplished by a call to Stone’s lawyer to arrange his peaceful surrender rather than a tip to CNN to assure publicity. Your bother, Jim and I would have done this differently! This is an outrage.

  2. Matt :

    Roger that . Roger is an eminently decent man .

    He did not deserve to have them take him out that way .

    But they did .

    That is basically how they Roll .

    1. “Roger is an eminently decent man.” HAHAHAHAHAH…they guy refers to himself as a “ratfucker” in politics and who through his own emails told a guy to “prepare to die,” and threatened to take his service dog away.

      You Trump cult members surely tie yourselves in knots trying to justify every awful decision Trump made, including aligning himself with this sleaze for 30 plus years.

  3. This is what the Feds do. They do it to intimidate. Mueller did it in Boston. Stone was no flight risk. His lawyer had offered to turn him any time. He’s known this was coming. If there was evidence he thought should be destroyed, it would have already been done.

  4. Agree, Matt. This preposterous show of force was extremely embarrassing for the FBI and Mueller’s office. Ironically, it had the effect of putting Roger Stone — a weird sleazebag if there ever was one — in a more sympathetic light.

    By the way, old Witch Hunt didn’t have much good to say about Stone following the arrest. “Roger Stone didn’t even work for me anywhere near the Election!” That’s hardly a ringing endorsement of his old friend’s integrity and character. Hope Roger isn’t banking on a presidential pardon. I read somewhere that Stone is a Catholic. He’d better break out the rosaries …

    1. Dan:
      I didn’t think of that but you’re right. Mueller’s heavy handed approach did make the odious Stone a sympathetic figure and gave him something to complain about. Not very smart of Mueller which makes me wonder what the final result is going to be. The only time we heard from him is when he went to Trump’s aid. Doesn’t augur well for the future.

      Don’t know about Stone’s religious beliefs but one can be of a certain religion and act opposite everything the religion teaches

      The raid reminded me of the time some arson investigators came to my office with another assistant district attorney. They wanted my permission to get an arrest warrant against a guy. I thought it strange for them to do this since they did not need it and the assistant with them had the authority to authorize it. They laid out the case for arresting him for an arson in his home. It was weak and I told them they’d need to get more before I authorized it since it was now my call having been dropped on my lap. They then said they knew it was weak but the shock of the arrest might get the guy to confess. I then said “why would he confess if he didn’t do it?” I sent them on their way. I learned the fire was accidental caused by an electric overload. It was later that I learned the guy was an elected town official and the arrest would have made quite a splash in the newspapers.

      I hope Mueller wasn’t going on the hope Stone would confess to something.

      1. The indictment references Stone attempting to contact people and speak on WhatsApp, an encrypted online messaging service designed to avoid detection by people such as the NSA, or hackers. Stone testified before Congress he had no discussions RE: Wikileaks, when in fact, the very same day, (or the day prior I forget) he had multiple conversations.

        This is all just in the indictment. Who knows what else they have on him. Acting AG is a Trump stool pigeon, who in his own words, has been “fully briefed” on the investigation. Don’t think there is at least the possibility that Stone could have destroyed evidence?

        1. I should also point out the First Son – in Law uses WhatsApp to communicate with Mohammed bin Salman of the Saudi Kingdom. Nothing shady about that at all.

          1. Dave,

            The whole group are totally untrustworthy. I wouldn’t ask any of them take care of something of value I owned yet we’ve turned the country over to them. It’ll be hard to get it back.

        2. Dave,

          I’m at a loss in the Mueller case. He’s given great deals to those who have pleased guilty which should indicate they gave him some compelling evidence, yet to date he’s really only hooked (aside from Manafort) Roger Stone. Let’s hope Roger isn’t the big fish he hooks.

          1. I think that means those who cooperated gave the SCO something worthwhile. If they had nothing to give, then they wouldn’t have gotten the sweetheart deals, no?

            Based on what I’ve read, it looks like Erik Prince, Trump’s shadow nat sec advisor and Blackwater murderer, perjured himself in front of Congress.

            Trump Jr. perjured himself in front of Congress.

            Who knows what the SCO has on Kushner….

            Re-read the indictment of the 12 Russian GRU hackers then read the Stone indictment again…..seems like they acted in concert with one another.

            There are so many Trump campaign tentacles into Russia I think the real question the media should be asking is not how the SCO can prove the conspiracy but how can Trump actually explain the dozens of contacts w/ Russia?

  5. Matt

    Down in the flats of Walpole State prison, the New Line of Concord
    Reformatory or the D street projects what Mueller did to
    Roger Stone is called pay back down in the whisper stream.

    You more than even John Connolly knows “ you don’t embarass
    the bureau”

    Roger Stone, trying to build on the work of my buddy Ed Tatro
    details how LBJ and FBI Director J Edgar Hoover wacked a
    sitting president of the United States John Fitzgeral Kennedy.
    The night before the assassination of Kennedy VP Lyndon Johnson
    was meeting with J Edgar Hoover and Deep State Texas Oil.
    Johnson came out of the meeting and told his mistress
    Madeline Brown that after tomorrow asshole JF Kennedy
    would no longer be a problem.
    Medeline Brown wrote about this meeting in her book
    Texas in the Morning. Ed Tatro edited the book for Madeline.

    So who do you think protects the Deep State ?

    1. The Daughters of Billitis

    2. The DAR

    3. The FBI

    Oh my…..

    https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Man_Who_Killed_Kennedy.html?id=VyuCDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button

    The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ hit the New York Times bestseller list the week of the 50th Anniversary of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. … Google Books
    Originally published: November 1, 2013
    Author: Roger Stone
    Genres: Biography, True crime

    Oh my my…

    MWN Episode 109 – David Denton, the JFK Historical Group, and Olney 2019
    26 January 2019 by S.T. Patrick 2 Comments

    https://midnightwriternews.com/mwn-episode-109-david-denton-the-jfk-historical-group-and-olney-2019/

    Professor David Denton of the JFK Historical Group and the Center for Deep Political research joins S.T. Patrick to discuss his entry into the JFK assassination community, the April 5-7, 2019 conference at Olney Central College, the origin of the JFK Historical Group, The Inheritance, the 2017-2018 JFK document releases, and teaching a class on the political assassinations of the 1960s.

    Information on the Olney Conference is available at JFKHistorical.com.

    Information on Professor Denton can also be found at the Center for Deep Political Research.

    coming soon….

    How FBI Directors make things go Boom

  6. Boom Boom

    9/11 and Other Deep State Crimes Teleconference
    wtc7 pentagon
    Draft Agenda for Wednesday 1/30/19 Teleconference

    8 pm (ET) / 5 pm (PT) Teleconference dial-in # (641) 715-0632 Access code: 551571#

    [Note: Some telephone service providers block access to this teleconference service, or require additional charges. If you encounter any of these difficulties, please try calling this alternative number: (716) 293-9623. You will then be required to key in the original phone number above before entering the access code. Please inform of us of any technical difficulties you encounter in accessing the teleconference.]

    Greetings all,

    Thanks to Cheryl’s dogged footwork this month, we have three fascinating guests on this Wednesday’s teleconference:
    rasmus
    It is not often the Teleconference considers matters of pure political economy, but let’s face it: the Federal Reserve and the international Central Banking structure are the linchpins of much conspiracy theory. Jack Rasmus, PhD, has studied this matter intensively and written several books on this subject. He’ll share with us his thoughts on the teetering global economy,
    the role of the Federal Reserve bank in it, and presumably, his vision for a genuinely public central bank that would truly act in the public interest!

    mlkThis month marks the annual memorial of the life and work of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. But family members, friends and supporters of Dr. King and of the Kennedys have marked the occasion this year with a petition signed by many notables to release all relevant documentation of the slayings of the Kennedys, Dr. King, and Macolm X, and to open a new inquest into these assassinations! Andrew Kreig is editor of the Justice and Integrity Project (whose website boasts a “Deep State” section), as well as a signatory and leader in this petition drive to launch a new probe into these historic, eventful and, sadly. essentially unadjudicated murders. He’ll give us an overview of this exciting project,. and bring us up to speed on its latest developments.

    Finally, we look forward to welcoming back Ryan Hess, to update us on his planned (brick and mortar) Museum of Conspiracy, and to seek input from us on its 9/11 section. If you have any creative ideas on this head, be sure to bring them with you Wednesday night!

    As always we’ll reserve time for your announcements.

    Please join us Wednesday for these latest currents in the Truth movement!

    Peace,
    Ken Freeland
    Cheryl Curtiss
    Craig McKee

    DRAFT AGENDA for Wednesday 30 January Teleconference

    I Roll call/ Minutes approval (copied below)/Agenda approval (5 min)

    II The Fed and the Global Economic Crisis [Jack Rasmus, PhD] {Cheryl} (20 min + 10 min Q&A)

    III King, Kennedys and Malcolm X assassinations historic call to action [Andrew Kreig] {Craig} (15 min + 10 min Q&A)

    IV Museum of Conspiracy update [Ryan Hess] {Cheryl} (15 min + 10 min Q&A/Discussion)

    V Announcements

    VI Ideas for future teleconferences (Group discussion)

    VII Any available updates on issues of identified ongoing concern (if any remaining time):
    New articles, books, films, or recent news about 9/11 or other Deep State crimes
    9/11 and the Deep State on the legal front, including current adjudicatory efforts by Lawyers for 9/11 Inquiry, JASTA, 28 pages, William Pepper’s efforts with AE911Truth against NIST and the Dept. of Commerce
    Censorship and cognitive infiltration: new examples of censorship or harassment of members of the Truth community; MSM treatment of 9/11 Truth
    Google (et al.) censorship
    The 9/11 Consensus Panel
    9/11 Truth political candidates
    VIII Adjournment (by 9:30 p Eastern)

  7. As soon as Barr is confirmed he should fire Rosenstein, Wittaker, Wray and Mueller for using these gangster tactics. The Deep State is pervasively corrupt. Indecency and lawlessness are the hallmarks pf the Feds.

  8. Yeah-Not all cute and cuddly like Killin’ Kenny Starr–showing up at a witness’s child’s school with his G-Men squad to grill the little girl. In an awe-inspiring display of balls, the principal called the local cops and sicced them on the Feds. They beat a hasty retreat.

    The principal informed the Starr Troopers that the child was under his protection and if they persisted, the local cops would cuff them and haul them to the pokey and not be very gentle in the doin’. How refreshing.

      1. I do not know the date. I believe the child was the daughter McDougal (?) who refused to give Starr any thing on Clinton. I remember the story clearly–I was so impressed by the school principal.

        Sorry for the lack of detail.

        1. Hutch. No problem. It’s probably recoverable with a little research. By the way I learned about paddy wagon being as a tribute to the Irish about the same time I heard the police Billy club was often called a paddy whacker.

  9. William ‘ the swamp creature ‘ Barr oh yeah make
    that o’vey.

    Down in ground zero he is called Ganuff Man

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/01/16/william-barrs-deep-state-resume-cover-ups-covert-ops-and-pardons

    William Barr’s Deep State Resume: Cover-Ups, Covert Ops, and Pardons
    barr deep state
    Jan 16, 2019 · I started off in Washington at the Central Intelligence Agency and went to law school at night while I was working

    in other news sense
    http://www.madcowprod.com/2019/01/21/long-slow-fade/

    Nastya Rybka aka Anastasia Vashukevich
    MAFIYA / NEWSJANUARY 21, 2019
    America’s Long Slow Fade to Black
    Nastya Rybka has entered the maws of hell. “They were discussing elections,” Nastya Rybka said. “Deripaska had a plan about elections.” “If America gives me protection, I will tell everything I know,” she told…

    also see

    https://theintercept.com/2019/01/27/trump-lies-information-quality-act/

    There’s a Better Battlefield for the War Against Trump’s Lies: the Courts
    Trevor Aaronson

  10. None of you contemplate the depth of corruption in the FEDS. Their intent is to terrify and intimidate the American Citizenry . . .and their intent is to create Police State, to put us in fear . . .WAKE UP, AMERICA . . . .everyone involved in these SS STORM TROOPER ATTACKS on harmless citizens homes should be ARRESTED, from Muellar, the Judge who O.K.’d it, and all who participated in it.
    2. There is a DEEP STATE and it is UN-AMERICAN.
    3. Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz, who has done much intellectual good in his life and I always enjoyed his debates with the likes of Bill Buckley, lambasted Muellar and his team. Dershowitz pointed out that all the crimes Muellar is charging Stone and most others with are process crimes . . .lying to FBI, to Congresss . . .that occurred AFTER the election, when Muellar was made special counsel to investigate Russian Interference IN THE ELECTION. MUELLAR’S HENCHMEN ARE CREATING THE CRIMES. THEY ARE CRIMINALIZING DIFFERENCES OF OPINION, LAPSES IN MEMORY, FREE SPEECH ETC. I’ve written extensively about this in THE FIX and THREE BILLBOARDS.

    THE FEDS have become THUGS.

    I could give you countless examples of people’s houses being stormed, being ransacked, being falsely accused, being forced into suicide, heart attacks, bankrupty, being forced to plea to anything or say anything to avoid bankruptcy and long imprisonments.

    I’ve written at length about these things, about the corrupt FEDS, MEDIA, ACADEMIA, and it falls on deaf ears.

    Muellar, the mule-headed man who thinks he’s tough and has no self-insight into how bigoted and blind he is, assembled a team of all Democrats, some active Hillary supporters, to investigate Trump and Trump’s Republican team. Muellar, mulishly ignores the same crimes Hillary and her team committed DURING THE ELECTION and goes after Trump’s surrogates for doing AFTER the ELECTION, e.g. lying to Congress, withholding evidence.

    WHY DO THE FEDS DO THIS, CONTINUOUSLY, FOR DECADES?

    FOR POWER. THEY LIKE TO STICK THEIR CHESTS OUT, THE BUFFOONS, AND THEY LIKE TO THINK PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF THEM AND THEY ARE IMPORTANT.

    THEY AND THEY’RE ILK ARE DANGEROUS AND IF YOU CARE FOR AMERICA, FOR YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN YOU MUST DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER TO EXPOSE THEM AND PROSECUTE THEM FOR THEIR VILLAINY.

    HOW MANY MEN AND WOMEN HAVE THEY FALSELY INDICTED, FALSELY PROSECUTRED, OVER INDICTED, OVER PROSECUTED, PILED ON COUNTS AFTER COUNTS.

    AND SHAME ON ALL THOSE POLITICIANS WHO AFTER STATE SENATOR JOYCE WAS DRIVEN TO AN UNTIMELY DEATH, BY HEART ATTACK I BELIEVE, AFTER BEING HIT WITH AN OVERLY OBSCENCE 132 PAGE INDICTMENT INTENDED TO PERSECUTE AND PUNISH BEFORE TRIAL,. . . .SHAME ON THOSE POLITICIANS WHO AFTER HIS DEATH LAMENTED THAT’D HE’D BEEN INDICTED . . .IN AMERICA, YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW BY A JURY OF YOUR PEERS. SENATOR JOYCE DIED AND INNOCENT MAN WITH A HIGHLY DISTINGUISHED RECORD

    THE ONES WITH THE EVIL, LAMENTABLE RECORD ARE THE FEDS . . .THE PERSECUTORIAL POWER ABUSING PROSECUTORS, THE STORM TROOPERS WHO DEVISE THESE 30 MAN STORM TROOPER RAIDS ON HARMLESS CIVILIANS HOMES

    I’VE TALKED TO AMERICAN CITIZENS WHO FEAR THE FEDS . . . .THE FEDS LIKE THIS, AS THEY PARADE AROUND IN THEIR THREE PIECE SUITS, THEI.R CHESTS PUMPED OUT,,,,THESE COWARDS, UN-AMERICANS, WHO ABUSE STATE POWER, WHO ABUSE FEDERAL POWER

    STAND UP TO THEM

    AND I CALL OUT ALL 35,000 FBI AGENT TO STOP TOWING THE LINE, STOP REMAINING SILENT WHILE YOUR SUPERIORS AND YOUR CO-WORKER PROSECUTORS ABUSE THEIR POWER AND TARGET AND OVERCHARGE AMERICAN CIVILIANS

    NONE OF YOU IN YOUR RETIREMENT WHO CLAIM YOU ARE STILL WORKING WITHIN THE SYSTEM ARE HELPING OUT . . .THE SYSTEM IS CORRUPT . . . .EXPOSE THE CORRUPT BUMS LIKE WYSHAK, THE STERNS GANG, MUELLAR, COMEY etc

    I applaud the two courageous retired FBI agents who stood up and wrote the true account, highly critical of the FBI and FED/State prosecutors and the MEDIA, who wrote the book RICO

    WE NEED MORE STOUTHEARTED MEN AND WOMEN TO STAND UP AGAINST THESE CORRUPT USURPERS AND ABUSERS OF POWER IN THE FEDS.

    RECOMMENDED FUTURE READING: The Righteous MInd by Jonathan Haidt

    1. Dershowitz also called Billy Bulger a gangster one of the real “villains in the tail of mass murder and massive corruption” facilitated by Whites, McCormacks, Cardinal Laws, O’Sullivans, . . . Moakley. . . ” Any you like the guy?

  11. Today, I put the finishing touches on my magnum opus, “Spiritual Glue: The Tao Ties Taut; a Christmas Carol/a Song of Joy” . . .it is a storylet of about 30 pages which I’ll be sending to the publisher this week . . .I also recommend it, along with what will be all ten of my published works. From Trial Court . . .is the best, because Paul Walkowski was the writer in chief, and I the mere co-author. Also read Paul’s Affirmative Action/Affirmative Discrimination.

    My other good ones are One LIfe, Character Assassins I and II, Shots Heard Round the World (two volumes) The Fix, Mac the Dog, Three Billboards outside Boston, and now this Spiritual Glue

    Happy reading . . . I’m happy writing and playing the keyboards and working out and walking downtown on Newbury Street, checking out the coeds, young professionals and office workers, hoping to get lucky

    Peace to those of good will (not persecutorial FEDs); to those not of good will: Special Forces

  12. Matt, word is that this spectacular show of force on Stone has Weissman – you know, the “pit bull” – written all over it. Yours is a good post.

    Also – Dershowitz has pointed out that Mueller was hired/appointed to deal with crimes occurring – before – he was appointed. Instead, what has Mueller got? Indictments against non-existent rooshans, and process crimes, for the most part.

    And, as usual, the coverage of this has been fantastical – horrendously dishonest.

    There he is, Roger Stone, the Trump link, the Trump campaign operative, who dealt with Julian Assange, the Rooshan operative, who “hacked into DNC servers” and dug up nasty emails that were negative to “her.”

    All as confirmed “unanimously” by the “intelligence community.” (As we know now, there was no “unanimous” confirmation by the “intelligence community.”)

    How on earth can anyone dare say the Roger Stone is not “dangerous”? 🙂

    On the other hand, there was this observation from Tyrus (the huge black guy who used to be a WWF wrestler) on the Greg Gutfeld show:

    “I am shocked – in my neighborhood, the FBI did not knock on the door – they battered the door down and started yelling at everyone, and they certainly didn’t allow time for anyone to put on a polo shirt and jeans”

    at about 38 minutes – you can zoom to it

    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Tyrus+on+Greg+Gutfled+show+on+roger+stone+raid&view=detail&mid=E206DCC75658B60B89CDE206DCC75658B60B89CD&FORM=VIRE

    or

    1. Elmer: it’s never been surprising there were different approaches used by the FBI dependent upon the color of the neighborhood residents.

      As for Mueller, his investigation fascinates me bc I have no idea where he is going. Those he’s indicted who have cooperated he slapped on the hand. Even Manafort he was going to give an easy sentence until he found out Manafort was lying through his teeth. If he’s giving out good deals it has to be for the purpose of bringing down some serious charges on others. Yet, time is running out and nothing appears in the offing.

      1. I don’t think Muddler knows where he’s going, except to keep the ball up in the air for elections – and, as one friend has suggested, to keep himself employed in a sort of perpetual pension-like state.

        The sentencing for Manafort was just postponed.

        Apparently, Muddler won’t give Stone and his attorneys the transcripts on which Stone’s “lies” are based. And, in a joint motion, both sides are asking to set aside speedy trial deadlines.

        I do think you have a good post – but one more thing.

        I was always under the impression that prosecutors are tasked with a search for truth, in addition to other prosecutorial duties.

        Dershowitz keeps saying that Muddler and his “pit bull” team (I think that’s an insult to pit bulls) have been seeking to get defendants to manufacture evidence. Corsi certainly provided enough evidence of that.

        At this point, I think I agree with Dershowitz.

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