Weeks told us criminals lie. Flemmi’s a major criminal so he’s a major liar. He was good at it. He lied to women very close to him and lured them to their deaths.
Judge Wolf tried to decide when Flemmi was lying and when he wasn’t. It came down to nothing more than guess work if he had no other facts to buttress his findings. To keep the system running, we pretend judges have some sort of crystal ball that gives them the answers.
Take Whitey another criminal. How do we know when he’s lying? We must look at other facts. He said he had nothing to do with murdering Deborah “Debby” Hussey. His man Friday Kevin Weeks and his partner Flemmi said he did. Three men who are liars telling a tale. How do I decide where the truth lies?
One way is to look at other facts. I know Whitey along with Weeks and Flemmi murdered Bucky Barrett and John McIntyre in the house of horrors owned by Pat Nee’s brother on East Third Street, South Boston. Each man was buried in the dirt floor in the cellar of the house. Debby also was killed in that house and buried in the same spot. For me, that’s some evidence Whitey was involved in her murder.
What else do I know? The house was going to be sold so the bodies had to be moved. They were dug up out of the cellar and moved to a place in Dorchester where they were again buried. Whitey was part of the burial team along with Weeks and Flemmi. I guess it’s fair to say he knew then that she had been murdered. I know the three bodies were buried there because Weeks pointed out the burial site where they were found.
Jurors are told when they listen to the testimony of criminals who have gotten deals they should give it much closer scrutiny. That’s because such a criminal in effect is being rewarded (paid) for his testimony so he has an incentive to lie. It is mandatory, especially in the case of these paid criminals that before believing anything to look for external factors to support the statements.
I used to tell jurors to apply their common sense. Things have to fit. They have to make sense. It’s hard to accept a person knew about two bodies in the cellar but not the third merely because it happens to be a different sex. The external factors are things you know for certain like the bodies were there.
Another way I weigh the truthfulness of a statement is to examine the reasons behind the person’s statement. Statements against interest (admissions, confessions) are admitted in evidence because it is our common belief that people will not make such statements unless they are true. Self-serving statements are normally excluded. I ask what has the person to gain or lose.
Go back to the Debbie Hussey murder. Flemmi told us Whitey murdered her. I’d tend not to believe that because she was Flemmi’s step-daughter and he’d want to switch the blame from himself to Whitey. Weeks also said Whitey murdered her. I tend to believe him because he had nothing to gain from putting it on Whitey. He would have gotten his deal if left Whitey out of the murder. That tendency plus the other things I talked about make me fairly certain Whitey killed Debbie. The jury agreed with this assessment.
In trekking toward the truth I put all the statements made by people in the Whitey saga to that test. Doing it is a step by step process. In that way I think we can come close to the truth.
One further note: Judge Wolf did look for other evidence to support his conclusion that Flemmi was telling the truth about the identity of his state police source. He pointed out that the source had been convicted of corruption. There too he erred. The source had been acquitted.
So there’s a lesson in that. The support also has to be correct. It’s a trek and when its over we can decide if it was worth taking. There are no short cuts as we’ve seen when others tried to take the same journey and lost the truth.
Hello Matt. Hope all is well. Any idea what Whitey is still doing sitting in prison in Florida? Whats the status regarding John Connolly being released or retried? Do you think Steve Flemmi is getting out anytime soon?
Maybe the Red Sox will have a better year this year!!!!
why is weeks being referred to as “whitey’s man Friday” am I missing something?
Matt :
It does not make him a better man ; It just makes him a man who kills others of his ilk, gangsters, and does not kill women. Whether you are unable to clearly see the difference or not, he knew what the difference was.
Your Tommy King citation raises interesting questions of your one size fits all morality regarding murderers : We might well lament that the Tommy Kings of the world left behind wives, children, and loved ones. What is a morally contradictory reality is that King, a known shooter, was sitting bulletproof vest clad in the front passenger seat of a car, armed and intent on murdering another, when John Martorano bushwhacked him from the back seat. If you seek clarity regarding under what circumstances murder, as in War, gets a moral pass, then look to that War. There are no such easy moral reckonings as you seem so easily to discern.
Matt, I have read Part One and Two and all the Comments, and the series reminds me of the parable of the “Blind Men and The Elephant”.
For those uninformed: “In various versions of the tale, a group of blind men (or men in the dark) touch an elephant to learn what it is like. Each one feels a different part, but only one part, such as the side or the tusk. They then compare notes and learn that they are in complete disagreement. The stories differ primarily in how the elephant’s body parts are described, how violent the conflict becomes and how (or if) the conflict among the men and their perspectives is resolved.”
The parable implies that one’s subjective experience can be true, but that such experience is inherently limited by its failure to account for other truths or a totality of truth. The question that has been raised by all is that if all we have are witnesses who are known NOT to be truth tellers, can we ever really get to the truth of the matter?
When I attempted to raise the issue that perhaps that James Bulger’s criminal activities expanded out of the now known area that is being discussed, I was informed that my comments were at worst ‘preposterous’ and at best ‘far fetched. And, how would I prove my personal experiences? I would need the testimony of at least former FBI agent John Connolly and of course James Bulger, and perhaps the man who was introduced to me as Gus.
And, if it is not in the best interest of any of those persons to confirm my personal experiences since John Connolly’s dental xrays were stolen, then does that mean what I have said is not true? Or, does it mean that there are those who would like to cover up the complete identity of James Bulger, and leave the public in the ‘dark’, and ‘blind’ to the full truth of the matter?
Weeks was not just a criminal and a liar, he was a Wiseguy. As such, his actions and testimony must be viewed in light of the hallmark of every wiseguy, the Wiseguy Ego.
That’s a truism that has been noted previously on this blog. If you’ve met enough Wiseguys , you know it’s true. An assessment of the motivations and testimony of Weeks, or any Wiseguy, without consideration of this could be incomplete.
Sitting at Wyatt, Weeks’s first interest was to get out of the jail, but a close second was to get out of jail with his Wiseguy Ego intact. It was everything to Weeks to be able to strut around Southie after being an informant and still say he was a “stand up guy”. When Weeks threatened Attorney Jay Carney in federal court, it was clear that deal the US Attorney gave Weeks fully addressed both of Weeks’s interests, and his Wiseguy Ego was fully intact.
The questions must be asked beginning with “How did it promote Weeks’s Wiseguy Ego for him to testify that”:
-Whitey killed Debbie Hussey; or
-Whitey was an informant (but I didn’t have any inkling for the 20 yrs I worked with him.).
A complete analysis suggests that Weeks had immense incentive to say Whitey killed Flemmi’s daughter/lover. It made Whitey low among The Street and the public. It made Weeks better than Whitey. It freed Weeks from any loyalty to Whitey. It made Weeks a “stand up guy”. It satisfied the US Attorney’s interests, too.
It fed the US Attorneys’ cover story that this whole debacle was an isolated case of a rogue FBI agent from Southie being corrupted by the worst Southie mobster to ever rule Boston….and don’t look anywhere else in the country for a pattern of such things, because as Kevin Cullen loves to say “This could only happen in Boston, the most Irish city in the country. And it could only happen in Southie where parochial loyalties could trump loyalty to the FBI.”
That’s a marketing line fed to Cullen directly from the US Attorney’s Office.
Back to analysis. If the fact that there were already two bodies buried in Nee’s cellar is somehow proof that Whitey killed Hussey, then consider that Hussey was the THIRD girlfriend of Flemmi to be murdered. The first was murdered many years before Flemmi and Whitey ever crossed paths, so this one’s tougher to pin on Whitey. A 19 yr old, tall, thin blond, beauty was found murdered in the mid 1960’s. Her body exhibited classic ‘crime of passion’ violence. She was last seen with Flemmi at his club. Under her dumped body was a receipt for a money order paid signed by Flemmi. She may have recently had an abortion. The US Attorney’s Office has buried the BPD reports from this “unsolved” murder, but the old newspaper reports clearly show the pattern of Flemmi’s handiwork. This murder also shows the origins of Flemmi’s penchant for stripping his dead girlfriends’ bodies of their clothing before he dumps them.
If two bodies in the basement prove Whitey’s guilt, then Flemmi’s two dead, tall, thin, blond, beauties last seen alive with Flemmi equally prove his guilt.
Similarly, Whitey seems to have or had some strong belief that it was more wrong to kill a woman. It’s one of only two points he disputed in a 12 week trial. Presumably, that belief was already with him in the 1980s when Hussey was killed. That gave Whitey some amount of incentive NOT to kill Hussey. If that was not enough incentive, the next best thing he could have done was not letting anybody KNOW that he broke that code. Instead, Weeks testified that Whitey killed Hussey in front of him, Pat Née, and Steve Flemmi (and they may have called in another guy after, Phil Sousa, to bring lime to Nee’s house.) It’s not credible that Whitey would bring such a crowd to a murder. It’s less credible that he would do so for a murder that he also believed broke some street code that he seemed to think was important.
While I am here, did you ever wonder how Weeks produced the location of the body of Debbie Davis? She was buried by Pat Née, not Weeks. Furthermore, Née was serving time elsewhere when Weeks was arrested and quickly flipped. How did Née get the location of the body to Weeks from jail? Did the Feds actually put Weeks and Née together to coordinate stories while they were both incarcerated? It appears that way. John Martorano admits that he talked to Née in jail while Martorano awaited trial, and he said Née even gave him some jailhouse items. That proves the Feds put those two together giving them an opportunity to coordinate their testimony.
Then what about Weeks’s story that a made Mafia guy from NY told him in the yard at Wyatt that “You can’t rat on a rat.” This version seems to contradict the version Weeks wrote in his letter to Martorano’s sentencing judge in which Weeks wrote that it was Martorano who showed him the light and told him it was OK to be a rat against Whitey (but only against Whitey, ie not against me, Jimmy Martorano, Pat Née, or Howie Winter, etc.).
So Weeks and Martorano spoke to each other while they were incarcerated in federal custody???!
With Martorano, Weeks and Née chatting about their stories before they take the stand and blame everything on Whitey (and leave out PN, HW and JM, etc) it makes it even harder to believe anything Weeks said about Whitey.
Don’t forget to consider the Wiseguy Egos of the US Attorneys either. They too feel the massive power of being above the law and they believe they have a noble mission to protect the reputation of the beloved DOJ,,,,at any cost. At any cost. They’re interests are also evident throughout the stories of their highly paid “witnesses”.
That’s how I see things so
blast away at it, but please remember the Wiseguy Ego in your analysis of any Wiseguy’s testimony.
-P
Patty:
I knew about the other woman allegedly killed by Flemmi. She was Kathleen Murphy. Flemmi was investigated for that by the Boston police. I don’t think his involvement with her was buried. It’s set out in his interview with the investigators. As for the Debby Davis and Deborah Hussey I have no doubt Flemmi was involved in their murders. Whitey was there to assist him. That Flemmi murdered another woman if he did doesn’t change anything in my mind.
Keep in mind Weeks was Whitey’s constant companion. So what you say about Weeks reflects upon Whitey himself. Look, Whitey murdered people and people who murder people really have no morals or any checks on them. They have no code. Isn’t killing a married man with children worse than killing a single woman? They kill when they feel like it. You want to believe somehow it makes Whitey a better man that he didn’t murder women that’s your choice.
As for Whitey bringing a crowd to a murder or extortion that did appear to be his MO. You point to Nee’s involvement in things and his burying of people. Whitey needed help in that respect. There was a crowd when Tommy King was killed, Buckey Barrett and John McIntyre also had a crowd.
You asked: “While I am here, did you ever wonder how Weeks produced the location of the body of Debbie Davis? She was buried by Pat Née, not Weeks.” That made me think that is further proof Whitey murdered her. Wasn’t Nee part of Whitey’s burial party. Wasn’t Tommy King found in the same location as Debbie Davis and we know Whitey killed King. It all points to Whitey as being involved in the murders.
Weeks is no shining star. He also is a murderer. I have no doubt these guys made up some of their stories. I’m a certain as I can be Weeks lied about the meeting in the liquor store with Whitey just before Christmas. During the Wolf hearings all the defendants Salemme, Flemmi, and Martorano were locked up together telling their tales and reviewing the FBI files that they lawyers got for them. I’ve always maintained the case is full of lies and that sorting through them one might come close to the truth. But I have to keep in mind Whitey associated with Flemmi and Weeks very closely. These were who he choose to be his constant buddies. Both are murderers and liars.
Interesting you talk about Debbie Davis’s body being buried by Pat Nee. I don’t. Interestein
Patty:
I should add that on whether Whitey was an informant I am still working on that. I think to do it right I have to define what the term informant is. I am also working on that. There are things you rightfully point out that raise that question. You noted Weeks never knew he was one after his long association with him. That doesn’t bother me too much because Weeks said he was never there when Whitey met with Connolly. Where I am bothered to be frank is the idea that both Whitey and Stevie were partners at high levels in a criminal enterprise and even though close friends still kept aloof from each other. We know of the lottery incident where Whitey didn’t want to include Flemmi in the deal; and, we know Whitey complained that Flemmi was dancing too much with Salemme.
Each was supposed to be an informant. We know Flemmi was; he has admitted it on the stand and he is passed from Rico to Condon to Connolly. How would it happen that Whitey would be brought into the fold? That’s something, aside from defining what I mean by the term, I am wrestling with. If I’m an informant for the federals and I have a partner in crime who is as hard as I am, will I tell him of my deal with the federals? How do I know he will go along. What complicates it somewhat is Connolly who is closer to Whitey than Flemmi. I’m still working on it.
I must not have been clear. My mention of Weeks is only to say your theory that he had no motive to lie about these killings is just plain wrong. He had plenty of motive.
It would take strong evidence to convince me it wasn’t Flemmi, that’s all.
What you present as evidence is vague enough it could point to Weeks as the perpetrator. Not that it does. Just that it could. See?
* Don’t ** give ** me this ad hominem… etc.
Now, can we be critical without being “ad hominem”. JKMc knew Whitey since he was 15. I guess many of us knew him since we were born. But those facts don’t detract from the criticism. We agree that Flemmi was most likely the killer of the girls; at least he was there cheering it on. None of us were there, Thank God, and so we look to Weeks for what. God forbid, not for corroboration; his story of Whitey’s 1994-5 flight and the closed walk in freezer talk with Connolly are as credible as his “six machine gun” story of the story about “20 envelopes with cops names on it” He couldn’t remember one correctly–and made up a name like Fitzy that some poor cop from Hyde Park had to deny having anything to do with Southie. Weeks’ stories are well rehearsed by the FEDs, but not credible. Before the young women were murdered, many men had been killed. The killers are contemptible. None are credible in my mind. We don’t have to speculate who killed who. They were one gang, accessories to each others’ killings. They chose evil. Two innocent men, John Connolly and Bill Bulger, have been persecuted by the FEDs and Press. In fact, aside from the killers, the real evil ones are the character assassins in the Media who delight in others’ sufferings.
I tend to think whitey didn’t kill the women. It doesn’t make sense he would and the fact that weeks knew where bodies were buried is not evidence. Flemmi testified that whitey watched when he and weeks reburied the bodies at his command. That’s ridiculous because Flemmi also testified he’s the toughest bastard around. He scared off the entire NY mafia at one time according to his testimony. He didn’t take orders from whitey.
Weeks already had the opportunity to get his story straight w flemmi.
Flawed logic IMHO to conclude whitey killed them bc 1. He killed other people w nee flemmi and weeks and 2. He used the basement in Pat Nee’s house. The same one they killed McIntyre in.
Wyshak wanted the girl murders to change the legend
Ernie:
The women were killed where? Is it some evidence to you they were killed where Whitey hung out? Or, do you want to believe that Flemmi drove all the way over to Southie to kill them there by himself. The women were buried? I guess it’s just a coincidence that Flemmi used the same burial ground as Whitey used when he buried Tommy King and McGonagle. I don’t think it was Flemmi who claimed to scare off the NY Mafia, that was John Martorano.
Flawed logic? Same team in same house do 1, then 2, and isn’t it likely they did #3. Remember they are all in South Boston the home base of Mr. White. You suggest Whitey was not on the scene and his man Friday and Flemmi were in the horror house where Whitey murdered the other two or do you think Whitey wasn’t involved in any of those murders. Logic would dictate you’d have to deny Whitey’s involvement because you don’t want to believe Weeks and Flemmi when they put him in other murders.
The problem with your suggestion is Weeks didn’t have any opportunity to get his story straight with Flemmi. Flemmi was in prison since January 95 and Weeks did visit him but they weren’t getting stories straight over murders during those monitored visits. After that Flemmi and Weeks never got together. Sure the federals could have told one what the other was saying but I don’t buy into that.
If you accept Whitey was a murderer of several people I’d suggest to you the sex of the victim matters little to such a person.
Matt, you miss the nexus; One person (persons) the Federal Prosecutors Office, was exchanging information with both Weeks and Flemmi’s attorneys, and with Flemmi personally. Most likely the FEDs said, “We need this” and the attorneys say to their clients “Can you say something like this?” and the serial killers-career criminals say, “Sure!” The whole thing is managed and rehearsed as is the trial testimony. 2. Weeks and everyone since Wolfe’s “findings” leaked to the Streets and since “Black My Arse” was published knew what the game afoot was; Get Connolly, Blacken Whitey to get Billy. The Press-Media in Boston tried to propagandize and prime everyone about the “Tale” they were selling; 3 Weeks said he was in constant contact with Flemmi via Connolly during the 1990s and was communicating with Flemmi in Prison (indirectly via Connolly, according to Weeks’ federally refreshed memory:) Remember Weeks testimony “Connolly told Flemmi to lie.” Well, I conclude Connolly told Flemmi to tell the truth and the FEDs said what Connolly said to Flemmi was not true—-e.g. Connolly told Flemmi “one plus one equals two”— and the FEDs convinced Weeks 1 + 1 was not 2; so Weeks was now prepared after much interaction with the FEDs to recall that his honest years old stale conversations with Connolly in the `1990s were in fact “lies” in Weeks’ mind.
Nee, Martorano and other career criminals, if the FEDs wanted them at the death house, would have been placed there by Flemmi and Weeks to get leniency, soft cells and reduced sentences. Like Salemme, multiply convicted of perjury, these men who would kill to stay out of prison or become grave diggers to avoid prison, wouldn’t blink to lie: to feed the Feds what the FEDs explicitly said they wanted to hear or what the gravediggers and their attorneys intuited what the FEDs wanted to hear. “Legalized Extortion” Judge Andrew Napolitano calls it. Say what we want to hear, the FEDs say, or get sentenced to “hard labor”!
William:
Don’t buy that the prosecutors were coordinating the statements of Weeks and Flemmi.
2.Wolf’s findings didn’t leak out, they were published. Wolf is not part of any vendetta against Billy
3. Weeks/Connolly/Flemmi were a trio in the late 1990s working together to subvert justice. There’s little doubt about that.
* No Matty … It’s your WHITEY WORLD and it’s a BLIZZARD 🙂 … Don’t me this ad hominem Dodge as you give quite as well as you get. Laying aside the cudgels for present Counselor I believe I answered your question already. They were buried directly in a known ground. The circumstances of their murders are open to investigation and speculation.
NC’s post is material to this. He iterates in natural flow of his argument a question I posed to you …. Weeks 🙂 … ago that you skated on by : Was there a forensic analysis … Cadaver sniffing dogs and so forth … ever done of that cellar? … NC elaborates the thinking man’s logic by adding this question : ” If not , then why not? “
* ” You know Whitey did not dispute he killed Barrett or MacIntyre during the trial ” …. I can quote you on that right Matt. ??? … When the lawyers for a defendant who never get to present a defense for their client choose not to challenge witnesses on cross about their wild tales other than pointing continually to their unfitness as credible witnesses, this does not mean their client is proclaiming his guilt. That you would try to slip that one by is sharp practice Counselor . One who liked you less than I would call it chicanery.
* Gee … maybe they were murdered separately and buried directly at Neponset btw … That may not fit your theory. It may be more than likely. You seem to have grown into a role of being the Ultimate Authority on all things Whitey, Matt. That is a dangerous conceit. Clearly it bugs you when your super smug and often logically baseless … speculations …. about the fellow whose wagon to the stars you have hitched onto, are challenged. Speculation is just what you are doing; but you mantle it in the conceited form of bald and baseless assertion . And then … heavens forfend that anyone point out the holes in your coat. Your vanity shows forth from every one of them Matt when you just don’t stick to lucid argument and get defensive and vituperative . Here’s a real revelation for you Counselor : A …. LOT … of people knew Jimmy back in the day. I was one of them. I met him when I was fifteen and … observed … him since . He was not shipwrecked on an island you see. He was not Robinson Crusoe. Stop your silly ” Guy Friday ” nonsense about Kevin. Stop overreaching and feel welcome to compare notes … and work towards the Truth with the rest of us poor pilgrims . That’s all you get. Understanding !!!!!!! 🙂
John:
The mark of an empty comment is a ad hominem attack. I asked you to tell me how the bodies ended up where they did in your Whitey World. You seem to like to throw bombs rather than coming up with facts.
Matt:
Who is being silly now ??? You are … asking me what I know about his Style . He had one. Didn’t you know. Lot of people were familiar with it. It did not include murdering women. I have hit you in a sensitive area I see. Stop your foolishness about grandly stating what you ” Know” and don’t know . Respond to logical argument with the same. Leave your Ego out of it. If you can do that without getting shrill and slightly hysterical with your denunciations about silliness , which is an affront intended to provoke me, then we can converse. Otherwise keep spinning . Okay Tough Guy ??? 🙂
John:
I’m waiting on your take.
Oh and of course the other motive for the story to implicate Bulger and end up with only one bad guy – protecting the informant Nee
Vermont:
Nee was protected no doubt. That doesn’t lessen Whitey’s role.
The question is whether he did it, not whether he participated in its concealment. Of course you can see ‘why not’ when you can see what Flemmi is and who had the real motive. I completely agree with the other commenters that – quite contrary to your conclusion – Weeks had extraordinary pressure to implicate Whitey. In addition to needing to dump as much on him as he could think of for Fred, he had to know that telling it the way it really happened would undermine his and Freddy’s partner in story spinning – Flemmi.
Vermont:
Weeks was Whitey’s man Friday. Whitey was the boss. You suggesting Weeks went off on adventures of his own. I don’t buy it. You sugesting Flemmi used the house in South Boston as a killing ground without Whitey being there, I don’d buy it. Of course Weeks had extraordinary pressure but he had an extraordinary close relationship with him. You seem to put Whitey as some minor character in the story with your suggestion it was all Weeks and Flemmi.
The question is who killed the girls. Most commentators and I agree it was the sexual deviant serial killer Flemmi. Whatever accessory roles Whitey played is not clear. The killer clearly was the sexual predator Flemmi. He admits it. The FEDs needed to shift the blame to Whitey so that the scum Flemmi would not look as scummy as he was to the jury. The FEDs and Media had a story to sell: Connolly from South Boston was evil; Whitey was the worst gangster ever. The FEDs did everything in their power to get Weeks, Martorano et al to confirm their fairy tales or should I say their Horror Movie!!!
William:
The federals didn’t shift the killings of the women to Whitey, flemmi, weeks and Nee did. As I said earlier it was Whitey who made Connolly look real evil and you believe him when he says he had nothing to do with the women. I don’t get how if you murder ten people the fact one is a woman makes you look worse than if you murdered ten men. It is only the devian mind of Whitey that he thinks that denying his actions in that respect he gets some type of credit. Whitey was a cruel sadistic man who stuck AK47s into peoples stomachs extorting mone from them.
Flemmi killed many before he got caught up with Whitey in their mutual bloodfests. Weeks bloodied men in his heavy-weight ex-boxer bullyboy fashion without Whitey being there. Flemmi’s past is written in stone. Weeks I’ve heard a lot about on the street from guys from Southie, Savie, Mission Hill and elsewhere. Whitey did not have them in handcuffs nor on ball and chain. whitey and flemmi were the leaders. The FEDs intent to justify their jihad against Southie and Billy Bulger etc, had to paint Whitey as black as possible as they tried to paint John Connolly and failed with two juries in Miami and Boston. Remember, too, Connolly’s conviction was overturned in Miami but before that he was acquitted of first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder accounts. The only reason he was convicted on second degree murder is the Trial Judge failed in his duty to inform the jury about the LAW. The law was the Statute of limitations had run, Enhancement Statutes did not obtain and an essential element of murder by gun charge was glaringly missing: Connolly was no where near the crime scene. In other words, it was impossible to legally charge Connolly with Murder by Gun, and I believe both the prosecutors (Wyshak and Florida prosecuters) and the Trial Judge knew what the law was (they certainly reasonably should have known) and nevertheless added the phony Murder by Gun count at the End of Trial, most likely because my hunch is they heard back from the jury or got a sense from the jury that the jury was going to acquit Connolly of everything. And remember while the Florida jury was out the Clerks in the Moakley Courthouse decided to publish and release a civil appellate case that found the FBI liable for Halloran’s and others’ death. The Front Page of Miami-area newspapers screamed, “FBI and Connolly Liable for Deaths”. while the jury was out. I’ve often asked whether or not the Appeals Court Clerks filled with bias and obtuse, deliberately or with callous indifference published this Civil Trial Appellate Decision knowing its likely impact on the Miami Jury. Something is rotten in the state of the Boston-area federal judiciaries-prosecutors, as there was something rotten in the State’s judiciary-legal community during the St. Pat’s Parade Case controversy (1992-1995).
William:
Whitey painted himself black.
Don’t buy the claim WB killed the women. Certain that Flemmi did. He admitted it and Police will tell you almost all killings of females are by family and boyfriends. Flemmi had the relationship with the women. Did WB bury the bodies? Maybe. Weeks and the other witnesses had an incentive to put WB at the scene of every crime. It is what the Feds wanted to hear. Remember Wyshak said WB and Connolly were the worst of the Winter Hill gang. He had to believe that nonsense to justify his leniency to all the serial killers and Mafia hitmen. The DEA guys and State cops had to buy that rationale to explain their conduct. Schneiderham had to be downplayed. Morris had to be excused. The worse a witness made WB appear the happier the investigators. If you told them he killed hundreds your credibility was magnified. The script was written before the facts were ascertained. But they only did what the Media wanted. 2. Did Law Enforcement ever go back to the Third St. burial pit and look for DNA? If they found none would that contradict Weeks. If not why not?
NC:
1. You buying the kool aid. Do you really suggest that people who murder other people have some type of scruples about who it is they kill just because it is a woman. Flemmi and Whitey did things together. Flemmi had the motive which there is no doubt. But the two of them worked together. If Whitey wasn’t involved in the Davis murder and Flemmi did it alone he wouldn’t have done it where he did. It was a Southie killing.
TommyKing, Buddy Leonard murdered by Whitey are found near Tenean Beach or the Neponset River. Where is Davis found? Weeks did what Whitey wanted. Whitey didn’t contest Barrett and McIntyre murders. Weeks had a big incentive no doubt but don’t forget who he worked for.
Sure the federals wanted to hear it but it is the only logical conclusion to things.
I agree Whitey wasn’t the worst: Flemmi and Salemme and Martorano were worse. But Whitey held is own in the group and was considered the leader with Flemmi.
2. I think I heard that the people who bought the house put in a cement floor in the basement. If they found no DNA that would make Weeks’s story questionable perhaps but you tell me how the three bodies ended up being together across from Florian Hall.
Matt: the facts are Whitey has a long history of treating women well and women who were very dedicated to him and who said he was a good provider and good father figure. Stable long term relations of decades. Flemmi raped his step child, admittedly plied coeds in Kenmore Square with Cocaine and preyed upon them and many other women; Flemmi was vicious towards women. That’s Flemmi’s history. Whitey has no other dark spots regarding women. Some say the seniors in high school used to come to Whitey’s bar and fool around there; but none complained about being raped or man handled or assaulted or brutalized. The brutal serial killer serial predator serial drug pusher (Flemmi) is the one and only real proven killer of these women. All else is speculation. Weeks and Nee’s stories are weakened by their ulterior motive: to get the FEDs to go easy on them; they knew the game: crucify Connolly and Whitey Bulger, so that the Fred the Fed-types of the World (DOJ prosecutors) could get the “real villain” the Great White Whale Moby Dick, I mean the DOJ’s and Fred the FEd’s great white whale, Billy Bulger. Billy is as innocent as the Whale. The FEDs continually used serial perjurers in their attempts to harpoon those closest to him and to harpoon him. Fred missed, and the Whale may turn on him and hopefully sink is whole foul ship!
William:
Living with two women at the same time while deceiving one is hardly treating women well. He was deceiving Theresa while living with Catherine. He was a mean bastard to Theresa who lived in fear of him but to survive had to put up with him. Aside from those women he was a know womanizer at least from all I’ve read. You don’t know Whitey if you think he limited his involvement to those two or three women.
Flemmi is all that you say but Flemmi was Whitey’s daily companion. They did things together all the time. You suggest one is vile and the other is what? Or, don’t you think Whitey was into murdering and terrorizing people. He treated women real well: what about the woman whose husband he killed and went to him to find out if he knew anything. He treated her like garbage.
You don’t think Whitey has an ulterior motive. They are all criminal with that type of motive. Of course everyone had a motive to lie but we have to get beyond that and look at the facts of the six bodies.
The federals didn’t crucify Connolly as much as Whitey did. Whitey was the guy who said he did nothing but pay Connolly money for information.
Matt, you put words in my mouth: You don’t know Whitey if you say he limited himself to two women. I didn’t say that. I said he had stable long term relations with some women and their children. He didn’t rape his step children. He didn’t use drugs nor ply coeds with drugs to rape them. Flemmi did the latter. Rumors abound; character assassination abounds; I don’t like it when it’s aimed at innocent police or innocent FBI agents, I don’t like mud slinging when Whitey does it—he accuses everyone of being foul —- ( I give names and examples of judicial and prosecutorial corruption) Whitey says he has “cops” and “FBI” agents at his bidding and can’t name one; Wolf too named a dozen agents and Kelly said recently many FBI agents were corrupted by Bulger, but the FEDs prosecuted none except the innocent man, John Connolly, as innocent as John O’Brien. I try not to assassinate the characters of the killers beyond what they themselves have admitted (Flemmi’s testimony, Martorano’s testimony and the sleaze book he co-wrote with Howard the Fatso Corrupt Coward Carr. There’s all sorts of rumors about people “womanizing” and even some otherwise good and faithful husbands and fathers can be found in strip joints and other places flirting with the gals. We don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. It’s best to draw reasonable inferences from the facts and to totally discount the fabrications of the serial killers, carreer criminals who have motives (leniency from the FEDs) to lie.
Inconsistencies :
You throw around the expression ” I know that ” like it is a ring toss at a carnival game : You know absolutely nothing about whether or not MacIntyre, Barrett and Ms.Hussey were even ever in let alone murdered and buried in that basement; you accept the accounts of the two merry pranksters Weeks and Nee on that neatly tied package, and in further asserting something that again you do not ” Know” , but merely accept as true, that they were dug up and re-buried you blithely skip along like a roguish Prosecutor to closing arguments. Sell the E.Third St. scenario to the Jury first : Why is Whitey a post-homicidal narcoleptic in the colorful tales his cowed and furiously shoveling henchmen tell ; A figure so Superior that Nee is mopping sweat from his brow as he digs up these supposed graves on E. Third and is querulously observing to Weeks. ..
” We could be next ” , and yet Whitey is the menial in the hole with Flemmi in another Weeks account as, as Howie Carr relates, a Halloween reveler drives up to piss nearby, and when departed Whitey in this Kevin Weeks account springs out of the grave and snarls at him that there was ” plenty of room ” for another body and that the machine gun toting Weeks … Weeks just being and according to Kevin Weeks as his story changes with his purpose …. should have machine gunned the kid : Sorry folks …. That is not Jimmy’s Style at all, no more than murdering women is. Do you see a pattern here with these fantastical tales of the merry pranksters that show a significant lack of realistic continuity ??? … The stories break down when you really take them apart : And in ” The Hole !!! “
John:
Jimmy’s style. What do you know about his style? Next you’ll be writing that that Weeks was never his man Friday and Whitey didn’t hang around with Flemmi. Give me a break with all your silliness in defending Whitey. At least have some clarity in your writing rather than asserting foolishness.
Here’s what I know. Weeks pointed to a spot across from Florian Hall in Dorchester and said you’ll find three bodies buried there. I assume he was involved in their burial. Sure enough they were there. Are yous suggesting they weren’t?
They weren’t buried there at different times since they were buried together even though they had been killed at different times. We know when they were initially killed they had to be buried somewhere; and that they had to be buried somewhere together. I don’t think you’re suggesting that they were buried in three different sites and then for some unknown reason Weeks decided to bury them together are you?
We know from the forensic anthropologist they had been moved from their original burial spot. That spot had to be in a location where the burying of the bodies would not be obvious. Perhaps in the cellar of a house. In an outside area one would never go back and bury one body on top of the other. We know they had to be moved because you usually don’t move the body of someone you killed once you buried them. What do you figure would require that to happen? Perhaps a house being sold?
It’s not only Weeks but Nee and Flemmi who talk about the house of horrors. Who do you think helped Weeks bury the people Whitey murdered. You know Whitey did not dispute he killed McIntyre or Barett at the trial.
You say my story breaks down, since you are so familiar with Whitey’s style and have such an expertise tell me how the bodies ended up together.
* Or if the Federal Bargain Basement murder tales are true. … etc.
A real editing HODGE PODGE today, Eh ??? … How appropriate somehow …. HODGE PODGE …. That is the Federal Case against Friend Jimmy.
* ….. of knowing what the deal was in exchange for Weeks’ and Nee’s testimony etc …..
* Amidst their lurid tales about … etc…. finds them credible..
Edit box on iPhone platform into this is difficult
This is a specious argument. You have no way of knowing whether Weeks would get the same deal or not if he implicated him in the women ‘s murders. You have no way of knowing exchange for Nee and Weeks’ Federal Bargain Basement murder tales are true . There was plenty of killing going on we can be certain of this . James B. is no choir boy. Of this we are also certain. What we are really examining for the decency of an honest take on an Irish gangster from Southie who did what Irish Gang Bosses do, is examinijg whether he killed the women. These are two heinous acts that the hyena Flemmi was emotionally and practically invested in up to his eyeteeth. I am convinced that those content to smear the older brother Bulger with this ludicrous assertion, secretly bear an animus, however well hidden, at the scintillating scion of the Bulger Clan, Senate President William Bulger !!! … Whitey was quite the cutup … let’s face it … Flemmi took a beastly delight in cutting people up . Steve Flemmi is a Monster mobster … but a Monster above all. Oh …. Flemmi is saying Whitey killed his girlfriends … even though as Bulger’s nemesis in the Press. Howie Carr has stated, Martorano told him that Flemni confessed in a phone call to him in Fla.that he strangled Deb Davis ??? C’mon …. It’s a total set-up. Believe what you wwnt while totally suspending your critical reason like a lynching tree rope. Ignore your own logic that in one instance finds Weeks and Flemmi incredible, and then amidst their lurid tales about the. murdered women and John MacIntyre. The name of the game called Get Whitey was always and ever driven by a hidden Boston Globe Yankee offended dignity agenda of … Get Billy !!!!!!!! ….Fortunately for the Globe Masters there were enough self-hating Irish in the Press and otherwise to knuckle their foreheads and fall into line by lunatic and treacherous line.
I agree. Flemmi the sexual predator killed the women; not Whitey whose history is long term healthy relations with women and their children. Howie Carr is a rank liar, as is evident from his books and he’s a rank slanderer as is evident from radio show. Martorano could swear on a stack of bibles, and would, that he didn’t kill anyone; conversely if he swore he ate Wheaties this morning I wouldn’t believe him. Him and his cohorts in serial killings lack consciences, or least have calcified hardened consciences; lying is nothing to them; perjure is nothing; brutality nothing; predation nothing; and they’d turn on each other for a dime.
William:
Do you agree Whitey gave John Connolly hundreds of thousands of dollars. That’s what he says. But you believe him when he says he didn’t murder the women. Why were they murdered in Southie then? Flemmid didn’t live there. How would Flemmi have access to the house, he wasn’t buddy with Nee.Or do you think the three bodies weren’t buried in the house but taken out and buried some other place. This is a story full of lies but there were three, nay six bodies dug up where Weeks said they would be. He got the information on some of them from Whitey. You only know of Whitey’s history with three women; there are other stories out there of him being a predator of young women. Didn’t he go off to Mexico with a 15 year old girl. Understand if you murder people the sex is irrelevant.
Matt, I had to stop after the first sentence. I don’t believe Whitey whatever he “says” He never said he gave Connolly anything: His lawyer Carney did; Whitey said he had scores of cops and FBI agents on his payroll as did Flemmi and can’t name one. 2. I discard everything Whitey said: he’s full of BS like all career criminals and serial killers; I believe Whitey did not kill the women based on (1) his entire life record dealing with women (2) Flemmi’s life of brutalizing women. 3. You can’ t use career criminals, serial killers, serial drug pushers-traffickers, serial predators to corroborate one and other; Prosecutors may do that, to their own dishonor, but in the real world outside the courtroom their credibility is zilch. I had several lifelong friends who were sociopaths, not psychopathic killers, and even they would look you in the face without blinking and say, “Today is Sunday”. Some persons have trouble with honesty. Serial killers would and have sold their souls to avoid prison time; they’ve killed to avoid prison. Please don’t credit them with anything but malarkey!
William:
In the CNN movie that I just watched Whitey said he never gave Connolly anything and he paid for all the information. $25,000 and $50,000.
I believe Whitey did kill the women because for one thing he killed other people. Those other people were married with families and he left women as widows. He cared little for them.
Is the question whether he knew about it or whether he did it? I don’t recall a contention that he was unaware after the fact, but that does not mean he committed the act. Equally punishable perhaps legally, but an important distinction.
If knowing about it and being involved in other similar things is what makes you guilty, why don’t you conclude that Kevin Weeks did it?
Vermont:
The question is whether he did it. There’s no doubt he knew about it. It would seem that the parties participating in the first two murders would also have participated in the third. I can’t see any reason why he would not have been present and participating as he did in tha others. He, Weeks and Flemmi worked as a team. Kevin Weeks pleaded guilty to her murder so I do conclude he did it.
Weeks is a proven multiple liar–six machine gun totting FBI agents at Whitey’s command, Weeks said: absurd—-so what is Weeks motive to lie? A Fred the Fed type federal prosecutor likely may have said, “We need someone to corroborate Flemmi’s lies. Corroborate them and we’ll go easy on you. Tell the lies we want to hear and we’ll go easy on you. Stray an inch from the lies we want to hear and you’ll spend the rest of your life in prison.” Reason enough for any grave-digger to lie! 2. Flemmi and Weeks are not to be believed on anything, no matter how much the proven perjurers “corroborate” each others’ tall tales. 3. Remember it too seven years in Federal Prison before Flemmmi (phlegmi) started spewing his slanders about John Connolly and H. Paul Rico. 4. Martorano can’t corroborate his own shadow; both he and his shadow are proven perjurers and frank rank liars with no consciences.