A few days ago a person commented: “Jill Stein and Flynn were at the same table in Europe at a conference. Putin came over for one minute to have his picture taken. Neither of them had a conversation with Putin.”
Here’s a photo of the image. If you click on it you get a better view. The person noted they were at a conference in Europe. That’s correct. But the more accurate description was that it was in Moscow, which by some reckoning is in Europe while others suggest it is more in Asia. Now to you does it look like Putin came over for his photo. It doesn’t to me. Nor did it to the writer of this article.
Did they have a conversation with Putin? According to General Flynn who sat next to Putin and was the first to jump to his feet applauding when Putin finished his talk: “I was one of the guests there. … Some interesting characters. I found it a great learning opportunity. One of the things I learned was that Putin has no respect for the United States leadership. Not for the United States, but the leadership.” Now how do you suppose he learned about Putin’s disrespect for Obama and Clinton if he didn’t talk to him?
Why not come out an say “yes Flynn and Putin sat next to each other at the head table in Moscow and had a nice conversation?” Why are they trying to hide this? Why are they rewriting history to try to make us think Flynn was some innocent babe in the woods?
Think of the date of the dinner. It was in December 2015. It was about six months after Trump announced his candidacy for the presidency. Flynn met with Trump in August 2015 for the first time. In February 2016 Flynn became and advisor to the Trump campaign.
The FBI opened an investigation on Flynn on August 16, 2016. In my book it should have opened it in December 2015 when it say, if it was paying attention, and American general sitting at the head table of a dinner with Vladimir Putin. What would you think if a Russian general sat at the head table with an American president other than Trump. I know if it were Trump you would not have a second thought about it because it is something you would expect.
What’s Flynn doing in the meantime? He’s not pursuing America’s interest but trying to build up a little piggy bank for himself. On August 9 he enters into a contract to lobby on behalf of Turkey. On September 19, 2016 he meets with Turkish officials to discuss possibly abducting the Turkish president’s political enemy. On November 8 he pens and op-ed about supporting Turkey. The newspaper after that noted that “Flynn had failed to disclose to the newspaper that he was undertaking “consulting work that might have aided the government of Turkey.”
That’s just some stuff we know about Flynn. After President Obama imposed sanctions on Russia, Flynn who Trump earlier said was going to be his national security advisor rushed to meet with the Russian ambassador to tell him that Trump planned to undo President Obama’s order.
I do not know how people can find anything good in what Flynn did or question any investigation into him. He is so bad that I am really surprised Trump has not brought him back onto the team. Then we will be told he never left it at all.
Whadddyyya say we have a group singalong……
In 2002 I helped shoot and produce the film 911
Press For Truth
You can watch it here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSFK4jWPRaI
Canadian investigative journalist Barry Zwicker is a friend.
His programs aired on Canadian television
Amd you thought we had free speech in America: Read it and weep:
https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/07/19/student-punished-by-university-for-posts-about-david-dorn-tiananmen-square-massacre/
Here is the Banned PBS Frontline documentary detailing
Trump mentor Roy Cohn engaging in pedophilia with
FBI Director J Edgar Hoover and young boys.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2h7cz5
In other news
https://www.baystatebanner.com/2020/07/15/overtime-windfall-for-boston-police/
NEWS
July 15th, 2020
A short court visit can net cops an overtime windfall
Cops insist on hand-delivering electronic evidence
Catherine McGloin
Also see
https://www.rt.com/usa/495109-nfac-black-militia-blm/
Leader of radical black-only militia NFAC ‘believes in violence’ & wants a real-life Wakanda for every black person in America
18 Jul, 2020 11:56
Good to see you again. How are things in Maine? It was 98 degrees down here inside The Beltway today. I really wish Bonespurs would stop with the humidity. The heat I like.
As Matt always reminds us:
“You are only as high as the people posting.
They can only take us to where their consciousness is”
https://whowhatwhy.org/2020/07/17/mccarthy-to-cohn-to-trump/
JULY 17, 2020 | JEFF SCHECHTMAN
MCCARTHY TO COHN TO TRUMP
A Look at the Long Shadow of Joe McCarthy
In other news…
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/gators911truth/KXtNGJCqAYE
Edward Rodgers was in charge of investigating cases of Child Abuse at the FBI
THE DENVER POST – Voice of the Rocky Mountain Empire
May 17, 1990
Sisters win sex lawsuit vs. dad $2.3 million given for years of abuse
By Howard Prankratz
Denver Post Legal Affairs Writer
Two daughters of former state and federal law enforcement official Edward Rodgers were awarded $2.319,400 yesterday, after a Denver judge and jury found that the women suffered years of sexual abuse at the hands of their father starting when they were 2.
The award to Sharon Simone, 45, and Susan Hammond, 44, followed testimony of Rodgers’ four daughters in person or through depositions, describing repeated physical abuse and sexual assaults by their father from 1944 through 1965.
Rodgers, 72, who became a child abuse expert after retiring from the FBI and joining the colorado Springs DA’s office, failed to appear for the trial. But in a deposition taken in March, Rodgers denied ever hitting or sexually abusing his children.
http://www.prostitutionresearch.info/pdfs_all/COPS_DAs_JUDGES_PED_PORN/2004%20John%20H.%20Conditt%20Jr-%20FBI%20agent-%20Fort%20Worth,%20TX/Ex-FBI%20internal%20affairs%20chief%20pleads%20guilty.pdf
Top Cop at FBI
FBI Agent Pleads Guilty to Child Abuse
Tuesday February 17, 2004 11:46 PM
WASHINGTON The former chief internal watchdog at the FBI has pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting a 6-year-old girl and has admitted he had a history of molesting other children before he joined the bureau for what became a two-decade career.
John H. Conditt Jr., 53, who retired in 2001, was sentenced last week to 12 years in prison in Tarrant County court in Fort Worth, Texas, after he admitted he molested the daughter of two FBI agents after he retired. He acknowledged molesting at least two other girls before he began his law enforcement career, his lawyer
Matt the Red Baiter….
You have hit a hole in one
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/jul/19/coronavirus-live-news-who-reports-record-global-case-rise-as-sydney-tightens-overseas-arrivals
Trump was playing golf on Sunday meanwhile, where his motorcade was greeted by a protest which may have been hard for him to miss.
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/b553968f876ffc4cc9272d824a8ea41fdac37448/0_82_4000_2401/master/4000.jpg?width=620&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=39bf0dcfcccd575d33dd5f406b635f5b
In other news……
https://www.masslive.com/news/2020/07/retired-fbi-supervisor-arrested-for-allegedly-charging-at-children-on-bicycles-with-truck.html
Retired FBI supervisor Cliff Hedges arrested for allegedly charging at children on bicycles with truck
Updated Jul 15, 2020
Calling Flynn a traitor or Trump Hitler is just a vile smear. Name calling is childish and doesn’t advance debate. Steele’s Russian dossier was a fake. A DNC dirty trick. Yet you swallowed it. Even Steele denounces it as just rumor. It was illegally used for the FISA warrants. You fell for Adam Schiff publicly proclaiming Russian collusion when four Obama officials( Clapper, Rice, McCabe and Farkas) testified under oath in a closed session that they had no evidence of it. Schiff knew it was a lie yet claimed he had proof. Mueller who was anti Trump said there was no collusion. Mueller’s exoneration of Trump was a declaration against interest that is why it is believable. 2. Flynn never lied. He was falsely prosecuted. Is lobbying a crime? Seems to me that the DAs in this State hired a lobbyist to get more funding for their offices. Should the DAs be called traitors? All Flynn did was lobby. 3. Time will tell if the Obama team are charged. Read my last two posts on Flynn to see the crimes of Obamagate. Look at the illegal spying on the Trump campaign. There is more than circumstantial evidence of Obamagate.
Excellent post, *Matt. What is trumps what was.
Correction: Your point was Moscow was not European.
Heads of State meeting their peers is not the same as prospective aids meeting at rah-rah meetings. Why did Flynn admit to lying?
“The person noted they were at a conference in Europe. That’s correct. But the more accurate description was that it was in Moscow, which by some reckoning is in Europe while others suggest it is more in Asia.”
Are the “others” referring to the place geographically or culturally?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundaries_between_the_continents_of_Earth
The word extended conversation should have been used. That is what Stein said. Tell us how long Flynn and Stein talked to Putin? You don’t know. Russia was a member of the G-8. The other seven leaders ( U S, Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan) met with Putin regularly. Should all those leaders be investigated by the FBI? Putin met with the heads of State for days on end. Not like Flynn. Why no investigation of Stein? Or anyone else at that event? 2. The Russian collusion story was a hoax. Even Mueller found no evidence. It was a dirty trick by the Hillary campaign . Some still ignore the proven facts. Flynn was singled out because he supported Trump. Obamagate was the biggest political crime in American history. 3. You don’t refute the facts that Flynn was cleared by the FBI investigators on Jan. 4, 2017. Then on Jan 5, 2017 Obama, Biden, Yates, Rice, Comey and Strozk meet in the Oval office. According to Strozk’s notes Comey says the Flynn- Russian envoy conversation was legit. i.e. completely proper. Yet with no basis for future action the conspiracy begins. Obama says get some good people on this( extending the probe). Without any basis whatsoever Comey sends two FBI to interview Flynn. They conclude Flynn wasn’t a Russian asset. This report is withheld from Flynn for three years. Flynn never lied. He was set up. Yet months later Flynn is indicted for lying by the corrupt Mueller team. There was never any basis to investigate Flynn and to continue it was a political hit job. All who participated in the conspiracy including the media should be held to account. There was clearly a conspiracy to violate Flynn’s Constitutional Rights.
I agree with NC 100%. Obamagate was the biggest political crime in American History, as I read it. History matters. Ethics matter. As someone said, “All that is necessary for evil (socialistic-atheistic-communism-big-government-stateism-speech-suppressing-war-mongering media-types) to triumph is for good people to do and say nothing.”
There are good histories of the United States: Paul Johnson’s, David McCullough’s, Ron Chernow’s, Thomas Fleming’s, Thomas Sowell’s excellent “Ethnic America”, a socio-political-history, and my own humble two volume “Shots Heard Round the World: Americans Answer the Call to Arms,” by me, an amateur historian, just another Savin Hill Billy, for examples.
1. Simplistic comment. It is the job of presidents to meet other presidents, it is not the job of American generals or retired general to conspire with Russian leaders. As for Stein, she had no influence over our foreign policy.2. Here’s what I don’t understand about you. You want to knock Mueller any time you have a chance and then you want to believe him when he says something that may be in your favor. Make up your mind – is he part of the Deep State or not? If he were then he would have found Trump colluded which believe me would not have been hard.
As for Obamagate, if it was such a crime why in the three plus years Trump has been in office has nothing been done about it. You like terms that Trump throws out and repeat them without much thought. Please spell out the evidence you have of Obamagate and while doing that the Deep State.
3.You agree I assume that Flynn lied to the FBI agents and he pleaded guilty to lying. Look, bottom line for Flynn is he was a greedy traitor and you like to avoid talking about his dealings with Turkey.
You write: “NC is “simplistic”, NC writes “without much thought.”
I have always found NC’s posts very thoughtful and stacked with insights and facts.
If you read and listen to Conservatives, Moderates, you will understand how corrupt the actions against Flynn were. They were analogous to or worse than the actions of the corrupt Federal Prosecutors in Boston, like Fred Wyshak, the Jihadi Javert, and his cohorts who’ve corruptly prosecuted so many I’ve listed before. And these are only the ones I know about. How many other innocents have been persecuted by the FEDs.
Why aren’t the prosecutorial persecutors in jail? Because the system is corrupt. A system that send a City Councilor to three years in jail for receiving a thousand or less in a “preacher’s handshake” but gives 30 days in jail to the Congressman’s wife for admittedly laundering four million dollars of her brother’s offshore gambling profits is capable of anything. A system that threatens the Swartz youth with fifty years in jail over a minor offense related to the illegal downloading of some materials, and drives the Swartz youth to suicide is capable of anything.
Why did Flynn admit to lying? What if your children were threatened with costly lengthy prosecutions and jail time; what if corrupt FEDs threatened you with bankruptcy from legal fees and lengthy jail sentences? Think of the Swartz youth threatened with fifty years in jail? Think of Senator Joyce driven to death by a drug overdose under pressure from the FEDs. Think of Wyshak and his cohorts corruptly prosecuting many, and ask if you would admit to a minor offense to save your family?
Moreover, the lie was really not a lie. As I read it, Flynn said, “No.” Then. “I don’t remember.” Then, “I did not tell him (the Ambassador) to do (this)”. Words to that effect. Recently Mike Pence had said that he did not believe Flynn intentionally lied. I believe Mike Pence. Matt believes the corrupt New York Times and the corrupt FEDs who set up Flynn.
Flynn sounded like he was trying to recall, and not being exactly sure, rather than outright lying.
As for General Flynn being a “traitor” and “greedy”, well that’s just typical leftist mud slinging . . . my sources and I am sure NC’s sources regard Flynn as as honorable a man as the Swartz youth driven to suicide by the FEDs.
What did the falsely prosecuted Reagan Official, Raymond Donovan say?
“Where do I go to get my reputation back?”
It’s tough to counter the malicious prosecutors and malicious mud slingers and even the petty character assassins like Howie Carr in this day and age. It’s tough to maintain a reputation when some many so glibly and so blithely cast character assassinating stones at so many.
I wrote two brief books about this, both lead titles were: “Character Assassins.”
You can trace the history of character assassinations to long before the Salem Witch Trials and Witch Burnings in Europe right through the leftist Bolsheviks and Nazi socialists through Joe McCarthy up to Hillary Clinton’s “deplorables” and up to today’s leftist liberals casual use of ad hominem attacks. It can have terrible effects on individuals and populations, like historically is has on the Jews and the Irish, to name but two groups. It begins with little falsehoods, little name calling, “thick mick”, “greedy Jew” and leads to mass starvations, genocides, gulags and pogroms.
I admit, I too, sometimes resort to name calling . . .I guess it makes me feel superior . . .it is fair to say Pelosi and Biden are suffering cognitive decline? It is fair to say we all are?
You know people in glass houses . . .and what the pot called the kettle …..and how many fingers are pointing back at you when you point a finger at others in an accusatory, deprecating way?
Point One: Always with the slurs: Trumpets I guess are like the Deplorables.
Point Two: Good research Matt.
Now let me trumpet some facts and reasoned opinions, loud and clear for all to hear.
Moscow is not only in Europe geographically, west of the Urals, it has been in Europe culturally and politically for centuries. Moscow is the European Capital of Russia. Many noted Russian leaders, like Catherine the Great, were of Western European descent. Genetically, Russians west of the Urals are identical to most Eastern Europeans and even Western Europeans in the Balkans: Slavic Nations. Culturally with Russia’s literature (Pushkin, Tolstoy, Doestoevsky) with its music and dance (the ballets, Nutcracker, the 1812 overture, Rachmaninoff’s Piano Concertos) with its Orthodox Christian Religion, and with Russia’s historical defeats of tyrants, saving Europe from Napoleon and Hitler . . .yes Moscow is as much or more a part of Europe as is Stockholm or Berlin or Kiev or Athens.
Russia’s vast 11 time zones embrace Siberia and the Far East, too, but so does America’s Aleutian Islands and islands in the Bering Strait near Asia.
Putin was first elected Russian President in 2000. Do you have any idea how many American leaders (political, military, cultural, artistic) have met Putin, attended the same conference as he, sat down beside him, or stood beside him, conferred with him, consulted with him?
General Flynn was invited to speak at this conference. Luminaries from Russia’s art world, political world, journalist world. (RT News I read and follow and find very informative.)
Whether Putin and Flynn or Miss Stein state beside each other for minutes or for an hour or two in a public forum is irrelevant.
I have always hoped and urged more contacts with Russia, with Moscow, and that friendships be forged between our two great nations. I was elated when I heard my nephew and his wife and two gifted daughters (ballerinas, academic whiz kids, too; good athletes; all around lovely All-Americans) visited Moscow and St. Petersburgh. One of my dreams was to visit both places. My friend, Harry Parsekian took a train ride from St. Petersburgh to Moscow over the Urals through Siberia to Vladivoskok, about the same population as Boston, and adjacent to North Korea. Yes, I love Russia and the Russian people. I foresee better relations, if we get the haters, war mongers, and deep state disinformationists out of the way.
Now here is something that struck me adversely in the article you referenced.”The U.S. intelligence assessment of RT paints Simonyan as the lead person, along with Gromov, engaging in “information warfare” against U.S. policies. She is described as ‘closely tied to, controlled by the Kremlin.'”
The head of Russian Television News is described as engaging in “information warfare” against the U.S. Forget the fact that U.S. funded and supported Radio Free Europe and other U.S. News Organizations closely allied with pro-U.S. International Interventionists and American neo-cons and other war mongering U.S./European politicians, have been waging “information warfare” against Russia for one hundred years . . .(and yes the Bolshevicks and Stalin were rightfully condemned, as were Mao’s Red Guard and Commies in general; as was America in Vietham) BUT the time has come for allowing free speech from all countries, for countering bad speech and especially bad Leftist ideologies with good speech, for countering rampant historical revisionism . . .yes rampant historical revisionism by Leftists in American, especially the hate-America crowd among Leftists . . .for countering all that bad speech and disinformation with Free Speech, good speech, accurate histories . . .
What brought us World War II was Hitler’s hate speech; what won it was the Free World with the help of the Russia people. What brought us Vietnam, was American disinformation. What ended the cold war was Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, Pope John Paul’s Free Speech and insistence that Russia unleash its hold on Western European Countries, which it did, and the Lithuanians and East Germans celebrated.
What will bring more peace to the world is when we disembowel America’s neocon, war mongering, Deep State disinformation proponents as we disembowel the Leftists’ anti-intellectual assault on free speech and anti-intellectual historical revisionism and the Leftists new racism against “Whites”. They forget Martin Luther King Jr.’s words to judge people by the content of their character not the color of their skin.
The War of the Worlds’ Words is on . . .and the only winners will be the side that embraces and expands free speech and free expression, that listens to Russians and embraces Russia as a friend, that counters the radical Leftists in the Media, Academia and the power abusing Feds, with more free speech, not less.
Did you forget Russia was an ally of Hitler at the beginning of WWII?
Are you aware of Russia murdering 25,000 Polish leaders, soldiers and intellectuals at Katlyn Woods?
Did you forget Russia interfered with American elections?
Did you forget that Russia is paying a bounty to Taliban fighters to murder American soldiers?
Do you know that all the culture you speak of in Russia came before the days of Lenin, Stalin, and Putin?
Were you aware Putin killed people who ran against him in elections and won’t brook any opposition?
Do you know Russia is not a democracy?
Did you read the book Red Notice? Perhaps you should.
Do you know you sound just like Bernie Sanders and other leftists and Reds when it comes to Russia?
Did you forget Russia deliberately bombed hospitals in Syria adn backs Assad the butcher of his people?
Were you aware Russia and China are about to enter into a pact for the purpose of defeating America?
You do know I assume that Russia provided aid to North Vietnam during the Vietnam War enabling it to defeat America.
You do know I assume that Russia presently is aiding North Korea in its avoiding of American sanctions.
You do know Trump lied when he said he had no business in Russia while working on a deal to get a tower there.
See my above posts.
Always with the negative, Matt. Always with the mud.
Did you forget My Lai, and the lengthy unjust war we waged, with Napalm and village burnings, against the Vietnamese. Did you forget America’s great heroic past is marred also by slavery, land appropriations, oppression of the Native Americans? Did you forget Weapons of Mass Destruction (the lie), cluster bombs, and the arguably unjust wars We triggered and waged against Serbians (undeclared) Libyans, Syrians, Yemenis?
Did you forget Doctor Zhivago, the great novel and movie. Do you not understand there were both evil people in Russia (the Bolshevicks and Stalin) and there were good people in Russian, the scientists like Mendeleyev, who gave us the periodic table, the scientists who gave us Sputnik and triggered the Space Age, healthy competition. All the Artists I’ve cited? All the good the Russian people have done?
Matt highlights the bad. Trump and Flynn are falsely accused. Trump and Flynn have done much good.
You focus on the negative. It is easy to demean, cast stones, paint it black. Shakespeare said, the good folks do is buried, the evil broadcast perpetually.
Science teaches to test and retest, to compare, to put in context, to be open to countervailing evidence. Lawyers sometimes only look at one side, prosecutors sometimes only look at the bad men do. Hubrus!
Matt: Your reading of history and current event differs widely from my reading and research.
All the culture I referred to includes the Bolshoi Ballet and contemporary composers, writers, artists, cinematographers, Doctor Zhivago, War and Peace, Rachmaninov, interpreted over and over by Russian Artists.
Matt, do you truly delight in nonsense. Your point was Russia was not European. I gave you ample evidence it was.
Now you argue, what about the bad things Russia has done. What about the bad things every country has done?
By the way, your analogy that because as a child you should not have compared your bad report card to the boy with the worse card, does not mean that adults should not compare and put things in context. Scientists and historians always do.
Are you suggesting that the political histories of the US, China, N. Korea are merely nuances of any governments and no big deal? Waxing romantically about fictional characters and politically neutral classical artists has nothing to do with the millions of deaths attributed to Stalin’s Five Year plan and Mao’s Great Leap Forward. Are those merely finicky details and deserve the same credence as the Magna Carta, the US Constitution and other bed rocks of Western Democratic Capitalist governments?
I disagree.
Well said…..and to the point.
I was speaking Russia and the United States, and admitted Stalin and the Bolsheviks were evil.
America is the greatest country on earth, but we have killed millions of Native Americans, enslaved hundreds of thousands of African Americans, taken the lands of others by force (Native Americans, Mexico, Spain’s Cuba and Pacific Islands, etc; Kosovo from Serbia, ye we complain of Crimea taken by Russia) , and Americans have killed millions in our wars . . .yes most of our wars were justified . . .But not all actions within our wars were justifiable . . .bombing of civilians, for example . . .And who was that woman Secretary of State who said the starvation of one-half million Iraqi children due to America’s embargos was “worth it”? The U.S. deployed the Big Bombs and the U.S. deployed AGent Orange, and the U.S. deployed Napalm and Cluster bombs, and invaded or assisted in the invasions of Serbia, Libya, Syria, Yemen, etcetera, etcetera.
Stalin was bad, but Russia saved Europe from Napoleon and Hitler
Russia’s achievements in checking China, are to be admired . . .
Russia’s achievements in literature, music, the arts, sciences and technology compare favorably with the United States.
Throwing the backward North Korea and today’s continuing oppressive China, never mind Mao’s abuses and atrocities, into the debate are not relevant to my comparison of Russia and the United States’ histories. Yes the Declaration and Constitution stand alone proudly. But Jim Crow lasted until the 1950s and McCarthyism rules the 50s, and Civil Rights laws were not fully enacted until the 1960s, 1970s, so even after Stalin’s death, America’s record was far from spotless.
Let’s stick to Russia and the U.S. for now. Let’s not muddy the waters.
Slavery and Serfdom are equivalents. The population of Russia in in1860 was 74 million; the population of the US in 1860 was 33 million. Russia had between 10 and 20 million serfs. The US had 4 million slaves. Russia freed the Serfs in 1861; Lincoln freed the slaves in 1863.
The Russian Constitution guarantees freedom of speech and of the press, although we know the Russian State restricts it.
In literatures, what Russia produced in the 18th century surpassed anything in the world. The US had one giant ,Melville. Russian Classical Music in the 18th Century far surpasses the U.S.
Russian architecture since before Peter the Great (1700) far surpassed the US’s.
The advance of Western Civilization in Russia, the advance of Orthodox Christianity in many ways matches the advance of Christianity in Britain. Henry VII made the Anglican Church the state church, and Russia made the Orthodox Church an arm of the State, too.
But Churches in both Russia and Britain have proliferated and thrived.
Of course, to repeat Hitler and Stalin were murderous abominations. The Bolsheviks and Maoists are equivalently murderous.
Russia, however, to its everlasting credit, stopped Hitler and stopped Napolean, saving Europe and saving Western Civilization twice.
No doubt, Stalin conspired with Hitler to carve up Poland.
No doubt, the U.S. on its own forcibly took vast swathes of land in the Southwest from Mexico and forcibly took Cuba and Pacific Islands/territories from Spain.
Please, add clarity. Do you regard Russia as an adversary or an ally? Should we align ourselves with traditional Western capitalist democracies or whatever model best describes Russia (kleptocracy comes to mind)?
Do you recommend that the charges of bounties being paid by Putin be investigated or ignored? And, if true, what would you suggest be done?
wa-llahi Bill, serfdom is very different from slavery. Serfs retained rights on the land as peasant cultivators. They had legal protections. Slaves were solely unfree labor and had no rights. Slavery and serfdom are not synonyms. Go back to the paper brain weights before you write.
Excellent post.