I guess what made me think of this is when I read a comment by Hutch. He punctured the balloon of the anti-abortionists who decry the taking of human lives without justification but do nothing about it other than lament, or perhaps write books.
Hutch wrote: “If there is all this murder going on why don’t [you] stop it with force? Isn’t it your duty to prevent this slaughter?”
This gets to the nub of the matter. If those who consider abortion murder or the killing of innocent lives then why don’t they take up arms against those who perform them to save lives? Doesn’t the law permit one to act to save the life of another from an aggressor?
I suppose if some folk opened a home where they lured in young children and planned on a special day, like the Ides of June, to execute those kids you’d be in there in a flash. Or suppose they just executed them everyday if a mother brought in her kid who she no longer wanted. Would there not be an overwhelming urge to save these kids by going into this home to prevent the folks in there from taking innocent lives?
What would be the consequences to those who ran the home and killed these innocent kids? They would be charged with murder and brought to trial. So too would the mother face the same charges as an accessory before the fact if she brought in her little child to be murdered.
If you are at all familiar with that deranged poor soul John Salvi you know he decided to stop abortions by murdering people who worked for clinics that performed them. He was convicted of murder. and sentenced to life in prison. He murdered real, live women whose families suffered greatly. None supported Salvi’s actions. Even pro-life folk on the jury voted to convict him. He would take his own life in prison while awaiting his appeal.
What happened legally to the people who were killing innocent lives that John Salvi tried to stop. Nothing. They continued doing it.
All this demonstrates the folly of maintaining that abortion is considered on the same level as the taking the life of a child that has been born. Society has never treated it as such. Whether abortion was legal or illegal those involved with it were not considered criminally liable to the same extent as those who killed a living child.
Why? It must be because society recognizes there is a major difference between killing those who do not breathe air and those who do. Like with all wrongs there are degrees like with sin which go from venial to mortal. Or, as we saw in Dante’s Inferno there are different levels of Hell: from Limbo down through Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Anger, Heresy, Violence, Fraud and Heresy.
We see then that the killing of an unborn child is a much lesser evil than other killings. We can tell that because of societies attitude toward it as well as the responses of people to its happening. Like some killings are justified, so can some abortions be justified such as in rape or incest (lwhy should a woman be forced to carry the child of a person who violates her?); or where one more child will break the woman’s back or health; or other similar situations.
Then we have the bottom line of men who will never be affected by the issue telling women how they should live their lives. In a 2020 Gallup poll men were 10% more pro-life than women. Don’t you think there is something very Talibanish about it?
Now a question for doubters and interrogators and cross examiners, ala the Grand Inquisitor, “What would you do if you lived in the suburb of a modern city, say Chi town, and in that suburb you looked out your window and saw a facility recently built is being used to house, torture and kill minorities? What if you knew for certain that men, women and children were being starved, brutalized and killed, your neighbors. Would you pick up a stick or a pistol and a rifle and run next door to the gates and shot down the guards, and entered and shot down the soldiers and doctors experimenting on your neighbors?
Would you rush toward that facility to stop the killing of innocents?
Now imagine you lived in a suburb of Munich, not Chi town, but ich eien nein Berliner, but in the suburb of Munich where Dachau’s camp was across the street? What would you do? Rush in and sacrifice your life, for symbolic, futile, sacrifice to save no one? You would be shot dead before you set foot inside the gates? What did they do, knowing innocents were being slaughtered, knowing your neighbors, your countrymen were being tortured and killed?
Should I rush at an Abortionistic Facility with a machine gun in my hand to effectuate what?
Bill
stillwandering 7:13 pm on April 16, 2007 Reply
Abortion
Seth ESP Class (12-2-78): Class Member: “Seth, isn’t it somewhat of
a waste if people have abortions all the time? To me it just seems
like a waste to become pregnant when all along whenever you just
thought of becoming pregnant, to have an abortion. It just seems
like a waste.”
Seth: “It may be dumb. I do not know if it is a waste. For the
consciousness will come to life if it wants to. And if the
consciousness picks a mother who wants to abort, then the
consciousness is only here for a short trip. A look around. It is
like the seed from an apple tree who travels into the next yard but
does not mature. It looks around and tries again. Any consciousness
that wants to be born is born. And it picks a mother that wants to
carry a child all the way.”
Perhaps, I do believe there is a consciousness in the Universe. . .I am not sure of many things . . .I have my doubts about predestination ….and free will
Matt
Most Pro Life folks are pro Death Penalty, eh?
Charles Sullivan CURE
Rep. Ayanna Pressley’s office has advised us to anticipate some major announcements on Friday regarding new support for HR262/SB582, the Federal Death Penalty Prohibition Act of 2021.
Mark your calendar and plan to join us for a LIVE conversation with Voices of Experience on the Federal Death Penalty, via Zoom and also on our Facebook page starting at 11am EDT on Friday, May 7, 2021. Please REGISTER HERE to be in the live Zoom audience. Yes, the event will be recorded and available for viewing shortly after it concludes.
Fridays event will feature:
Rev. Sharon Risher, whose mother and aunt were among those murdered in the 2015 massacre at Mother Emanuel AME church in Charleston, South Carolina. The killer is currently on federal death row.
Bethany Bourgeois George, whose father was among the 13 federal prisoners killed during the Trump execution spree
Krisanne Vaillancourt Murphy, Executive Director of the Catholic Mobilizing Network
Celia Ouellette, Chief Executive of the Responsible Business Initiative for Justice
Other surprise guests are possible!
It is imperative that you write your Members of Congress today to urge them to support HR 262/SB 582.
Write to Congress Now!
There’s lot’s more to do – check out the Federal Abolitionist Tool Kit, and help spread the word by sharing our posts on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram & Tok Tok!
–Abe
Abraham J. Bonowitz
Executive Director
There is no inconsistency in pro life/pro death penalty decisions.
True
Matt
It is harder to get a drivers license than it
is to have a baby.
See my thread
https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=46369
In other abortions….
https://gizmodo.com/fbi-informants-committed-over-9-000-crimes-in-early-tru-1846840537
FBI Informants Committed Over 9,000 Crimes in Early Trump Years
https://abcnews.go.com/US/claims-surrounding-malcolm-assassination-surface-letter-written-nypd/story?id=76031383
“A former New York City police officer has, before his death, implicated the NYPD and FBI in the murder of civil rights leader Malcolm X on February 21, 1965.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/02/09/cia-may-have-used-contractor-who-inspired-mission-impossible-kill-rfk-new-book-alleges/
As an ex-FBI agent, the CIA asked him to handle jobs it wanted to steer clear of, such as lining up prostitutes for a foreign president or hiring the mafia to kill Fidel Castro. For more than 15 years, Maheu and his Washington-based company were on monthly retainer to “The Agency,”
Now, a new book alleges that Maine FBI agent Maheu may have performed another mission for the CIA: the assassination of Sen. Robert F. Kennedy (D-N.Y.).
Absolutely beneath sophomoric, because high school or college student who took one ethnic course would raise these issues.
As said, all these comments have been raised before and cut to shreds by not just philosophers, theologians, pro-lifers, academics, Jesuits, Christian Jews Muslims by almost every ordinary person on planet Earth.
I took my first embryology course at college in 1965. Lawyers and political scientists who have commented on this cite have never taken a biology course, even one to my knowledge.
So, let’s begin with this childish idiocy. No person I know today who denies a fetus is a human being. There are only moronic sophists who distinquish neonates from the unborn.
I have read, most commenting here, have never read textbooks on embryology, obstetrics, gyneology, genetics, phsyiology, medicine, epidemiology, other biological related sciences. Now lets say, just 9 years of studying biological related sciences, medico-public health sciences, and now and additional four years at night school studying law, focusing from day one on Environmental Law, and working for five plus years as an environmental toxicologist (published) and program planner at DEP.
So, let us consider when an individual human life begins. All sciences agree an individual human life begins at conception.
Now let’s wander into another field, Ethics. Some favor euthanasia, infanticide (Socractes and Plato did of deformed newborns) and genocide via abortions of defective or simply considered lessers, as did the NAZIS.
On the other end of Ethics are the physicians, philosophers, medical sciences and religious persons who have Respect for Human Life: Albert Scweitzer, Mother Teresa, 85% of ob-gyns, who understand a human being, a child, equivalent, equal to a neonate, and that in utero, in fallopian tube, is a human being from conception. Those ethical people, basing their ethics, of course, on reason, science, history, precedents and Scripture. For example, the Catholic Church has explicitly banned all abortions, intentionally killing of the unborn human being, at any stage, from week one to week forty in utero.
Now the invincible ignorance I encounter, is when some say, let’s consider a child being killed, would not we rush to his or her defense, of course we would.
Now, how we stop euthansia of the elderly in hospitals, machine gunning doctors, nurses, technicians? Gunning down the lawyers who drew up contracts the relatives signed to authorize euthanasia.
Why don’t we? Because we are opposed to killing except in self-defense of ourselves or others.
So, to save one elderly on his death bed, are we justified to kill doctors, nursel, lawyers, relatives who consented with euthanasia. We kill more to save one.
Well, what about Planned Parenthood sites? Who are we to kill guards, staff, clerics, doctors, nurses, pregnant women, relatives to share the lives of other human beings. Do you apprehend the proposed insanity that we should bomb Planned Parenthood facilities, where on any days, women are getting ethical abortions for life threatening hemorrhaging, ectopic pregnancies, cancerous ovaries or uteri, or doctors and nurse practitioner are performing pap smears, or cervical examinations, or mammograms, or blood tests, or physical exams of women, young teenagers, and a variety of legal, lawful, ethical, essential medical treatments.
And I have read the confused on this site who say If you really believe the unborn was a child . . .it is a scientific fact that the unborn are individual human beings that even most laws recognized the scientific fact of that, and some, like SCOTUS have done, squirm and quibble and invent NEWSPEAK: potential life, viability.
Since conception, fifty percent may not reach the uterine wall, another percentage once implanted may be spontaneously miscarried. The fact I have read is that 75% of zygotes will implant, and 90% of those will be born, unless killed in the womb, or killed at implantation, or killed post-fertilization while travelling down the tubes.
Let us put it simpler. Did you ever see a dog or cat gave birth to a litter of kittens or puppies. Did you ever feel the belly of that pet and feel the movements, took a stethoscope and listen to the heartbeats, or look at an MRI or Catscan showing those little kittens and puppies squirming inside the womb.
O.K., now you pro-abortionists with zero education in biology, elemental biology, share on this blog whether or not you know that at 10 weeks post conception or post implantation are “formed” “formed human beings” with arms, legs, torsos, faces, heads, active brains, detectable, measurable, scientists can tell you that 10 week old fetus already has a spinal cord and a brain with 100 million connected brain cells, neurons, growing, developing, interconnecting.
Flash news: A human fetus is a human being, as is a human embryo a human being as is a cat’s kitty embryos are feline beings.
Flash news unborn can do everything that newborns can do, except unborns get their oxygen and nourishment from mom’s umbilical cords, and newborns cords cut, get oxygen from air and nourishment from mom or other adults. Both are fully dependent on adults. Both brains are indistinguishable. A neonate at 22 weeks in the womb has a brain that is still growing and will reach to a grownup adult fully forming brain reasoning brain at about 18-24, and a 22 week old brain in utero, will grow seamlessly identically.
If a doctor aborted an identical twin, which has not head, nor neuron cells, has died, the doctor will abort that unformed human being to save two lives, the twins and mothers.
If a doctor aborts a dead fetus, he has committed no moral wrong, in fact he has saved a mother’s life likely.
If a doctor let a fourteen year old or sixteen year old (I’ve seen young teenagers deliver at the D.C. Hospital and both lives were saved.) let them deliver and provide health, social services, both mother and child will live long? Yes. My aunt delivered my cousin when she was sixteen. My wife’s mother delivered her first child when she was sixteen. Jesus Christ, the Jew Mary delivered her baby when she was sixteen or younger then.
Since time immemoriam teenagers have safely delivered babies. Their bodies are fit for that, not as fit as mature young women, aged eighteen and up, say, but their bodies and their unborn child, in utero, can medically be saved at even higher rates today than ever before.
The only justification for killing an unborn child is when it is medically not possible to save both lives.
I could give you some books to read. Why not read up on the subject matter? Don’t pick up a shotgun or machine gun, respect human life, but why not lift a finger, lift a pen, lift your voice to try to save the life of one, just one, unborn human child?
Not to be uncharitable, but I must say it is sometimes hard to break through invincible ignorance.
P/s This was written spontaneously and unedited.