I have asked myself since January 6, 2021, the question what do the Trump supporters expect? On that date we saw Trump inspired insurrectionists invade our Capitol, shut down the vote for certifying the election results in the states, cause the death and injury to police officers and others, and cause extensive and unnecessary damage.
What did Trump, his friends and followers think would be the result of this had they succeeded? No one seems to have focused on this. Did they really believe that if they prevented the vote from being certified Trump would remain as president? Would Trump have claimed that he was still president?
I have to think that is what Trump hoped the ultimate outcome would be. He posits the idea, still to this date, that he won by a landslide having attained millions of more votes than President Biden. We are told that somewhere, somehow, and cleverly, votes for him were changed to votes for Biden. He believes in his mind that he is still the president. Those who went to Washington on January 6, 2021 believe that to be the case. There are still some Republicans in Congress who refuse to recognize Biden as president.
I do not have to say this because you know it: nothing like this has ever happened before in our country. It is an historical aberration applauded by a person who was elected president. Rather than being ostracized by the Republicans who know all this he is embraced by the leading members of the Republican Party in Congress. Are these representatives of the people happy to have the will of the people thwarted by one person who decides for himself what the outcome of the vote is?
Those who rioted in Washington are ardent followers of a person who openly derides election results and claims without proof that he won the election? What then is the need for an election if the results can be disregarded or if one can launch his followers to sabotage the results? How close do we come to destroying democracy when this happens and no consequences follow.
Ah, there’s the rub. Some though will suffer for their folly. Those Trump followers who were part of the insurrectionist mob that invaded our Capitol will be charged for their actions and punished when convicted. Those Trump followers who believed they were doing the will of Trump who refused to concede defeat and that because he urged them to come to Washington to have a “wild time” they would be protected. Did they really believe they could launch violence against our nation and gain impunity? Did they really believe they could overthrow the United States government and install their own guy as president?
The thing about this is that as they languish in their prison cells they will have plenty of time to think about it. They came to participate because Trump called them. They did this because they believed their president, Trump, wanted them to do it. In saying that they are correct.
They had to expect there would be no consequences for their action. That somehow having done the work by the incitement of Trump they expected he would help them. Just like their expectation that they could overthrow the nation by violence came to naught but their prosecutions; so did their expectation that Trump would aid them during their peril.
Their expectations have been dashed. Why could they not understand Trump had no plan or intention to help them. He is not paying for their legal expenses nor will he support their families when they go off to prison. Did not they know Trump’s cardinal rule: “You don’t succor suckers.”
Who the fuck left the door open?
It was me….
Ugh!
Big shout out to Wilhelm of Cognitve Dissonance. Great to
see him back word slinging at the palabra shoot out held
every fool’s moon at the MC Irregulars not so OK Corral.
First thing we check for is the big,stinky,elephant
in the room,eh?
Was the Jan 6, 2021 bum rush of the US Capitol
a FBI planned Operation?
How would they and other unamed beneficiaries
benefit from such an event?
How long have they been planning it?
How do we know FBI paid staff organized the event?
Has FBI paid staff been caught in recent memory
creating similar events?
Ugh!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-charged-capitol-riot-worked-fbi-lawyer-says-n1257121
Man charged in Capitol riot worked for FBI, lawyer says
Authorities believe Thomas Caldwell, who has held a top-secret security clearance since 1979, is a leader in the far-right Oath Keepers militia group.
Was Mumbai attack organizer David Headley an FBI informer?
Pakistani-American David Coleman Headley, a LeT operative charged with criminal conspiracy in the 26/11 terror attacks, was arrested twice before on drug charges but was released early as he was a “good informant” in unearthing of some of the major drug cartels.
Kent State Truth Tribunal … Terry Norman, FBI informant and provocateur, helped create the May 4, 1970 #KentState massacre and fired the first shot that day. For …
https://www.deseret.com/2007/2/22/20003336/nichols-says-bombing-was-fbi-op
Nichols says bombing was FBI op
Detailed confession filed in S.L. about Oklahoma City plot
By Geoffrey Fattah Feb 22, 2007, 1:02pm MST
The only surviving convicted criminal in the April 19, 1995, bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City is saying his co-conspirator, Timothy McVeigh, told him he was taking orders from a top FBI official in orchestrating the bombing.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9428743/The-conspiracy-theory-wont-rest-peace.html
The conspiracy theory that still won’t rest in peace | Daily Mail Online
One man murdered, others being almost pressed to death and suffocated by chemical sprays and not one “patriot” coming to the aid of these men doing their job. This was not a few bad apples, it was a cadre of evil doers intent on violence and serious harm.
Since when are veterans automatically nominated for sainthood? Some veterans are murders, rapists, thieves and scoundrels…just like the society as a whole.
Allow me to respond in less than 500 words:
One person was intentionally killed, Ashli Babbitt. The Police Officer admitted he intentionally shot her at close range in the upper chest/neck area.
It’s not been proven protesters murdered anyone or intended to kill anyone. In fact, the only allegation (charge) is that a connection exists between the officer’s stroke and “bear spray” (less toxic than pepper spray, as I read). Medical evidence is far from conclusive or even compelling. His autopsy showed “no trauma.” What did the autopsy say about chemical irritants triggering strokes 24 hours later? What epidemiologic study connects pepper spray, bear spray with strokes?
Let’s await the evidence.
Did the stress cause the police officer’s stroke 24 hours later? One protester outside the Capitol suffered a stroke that day. Did stress cause the protesters’ strokes and heart attacks? Does the stress of unemployment cause an increase in disease and deaths? Who do we charge when someone dies of natural causes or when someone commits suicide? I know some persons years ago were charged who intentionally encouraged or abetted suicide. No protesters encourage suicides.
Murder is a legal word of art. Consider degrees, and the difference between murder and manslaughter. If any protesters are “charged” with murder or lesser crimes, in America they are presumed innocent until “proven guilty” in a courtroom by a jury of their peers. I believe prosecutors, the media and the public are falsely claiming “murder.”
It’s not proven any of the protesters intended to kill, although some few have struck police officers, have hurled objects (flag staffs) or wielded batons which could have been deadly. Some police have battered and sprayed and threw “flash grenades” at protesters. Some protesters wrongfully fought back. We condemn violence, but do we understand?
It is False to say: “not one ‘patriot” came to the aid of men doing their job. Videos show many patriots helping cops and helping to deter co-Patriots pushing, throwing objects, and fighting police. Many Patriots shouted, “no violence”. Many Patriots stopped property destruction. No statues were torn down. No paintings/artwork were destroyed. No arsons were started. Some broke windows and doors. Remember, even the 2018 anti-Kavanaugh protesters banged on doors while Congressional hearings were held.
Broad-brushing Patriotic Americans does not advance understanding. Broad brushing Trump supporters, “Trumpers”, negatively impairs understanding. Hutch sees a cadre of intentional evil-doers? Who? What evil? I see a few hundred engaged in “violent” civil disobedience causing mostly minor damages and minor injuries. Most arrested (less than 400) mostly just trespassed.
John Adams defended the Militia who killed seven Patriots. If I were still practicing law, I’d defend all the Patriots, even those accused of crimes. I understand human nature. I understand anger, righteous, spontaneous, simmering in souls, faintly or fiercely fiery.
I understand men who are fed up with leftists.
Hutch
ARE WE CATCHING TERRORISTS?
OR CREATING THEM?
https://www.brandeis.edu/investigate/government-corporate-wrong-doing/catching-or-creating-terrorists.html
In “The Terror Factory: Inside the FBI’s Manufactured War on Terrorism” , Schuster Institute Senior Fellow Trevor Aaronson analyzed more than 500 federal terrorism prosecutions over ten years and found reason to question whether U.S. law enforcement is actually creating the very enemy we fear.
Msfreeh. I second folks read your cited article: https://www.brandeis.edu/investigate/government-corporate-wrong-doing/catching-or-creating-terrorists.html
We know personally folks framed by the FEDs. Beware FEDs’ tentacles. FEDs as agitators, provocateurs, persecutors, intimidators, suppressors of free speech and free association.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/1023851/fbi-interrogation-manual-5-2011.pdf
Matt
I posted the above link in your recent story about the Boston Mayor.
Someone accessed your account and my post ,changed pdf to html
This was the link for the FBI Interrogation Manual
I got the link from this Mother Jones article.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/12/fbi-copyrighted-interrogation-manual-unredacted-secrets/
CRIME AND JUSTICE
DECEMBER 20, 2013
You’ll Never Guess Where This FBI Agent Left a Secret Interrogation Manual
“Security screwups are not very uncommon. But this is a first.”
NICK BAUMANN
Bio | Follow
WOW!
1.RIOTS: Why did some Trump supporters spontaneously turned to rioting? I guess they were just angry at the government in general. You know if you keep calling Trump supporters “deplorables” or worse for four years, keep spewing hate at them for four years, keep comparing them to Nazis for four years, then you may expect you’ll enrage them. The anti-Trump hate mongers have succeeded in enraging pro-Trump supporters.
Did Trump incite violence? He was acquitted of that by Congress, by due process. Trump has conducted scores of rallies across America these last four-plus years without violence. On Jan 6, at 2:38 p.m. he began twitting “no violence.”
“What did Trump and his protesters want?” Merely a delay in finalizing delegates; the delay, they hoped, would result in fairer recounts. This is exactly what anti-Kavanaugh protesters wanted: a delay on the vote on Kavanaugh.
Were riots, law-breakers at D.C. unprecedented?
1. Remember the White House, May 2020: NYT “Hundreds of protesters were gathering outside the gates, shouting curses at President Trump and in some cases throwing bricks and bottles. Nervous for his safety, Secret Service agents abruptly rushed the president to the underground bunker.”
2. Remember the 250 riots in summer of 2020, causing a score of deaths and billions in property damage?
3. Remember, 2018, when over 300 women engaged in anti-Kavanaugh Civil Disobedience were arrested; over 600 had occupied the Capitol, disrupting proceedings on the Congressional floor and from the galleries.
4. Remember in 1968, after MLK was killed, thousands of rioters in D.C. destroyed blocks of property. Worse riots occurred in L.A. Remember 1968 Chicago rioters?
5. Remember, too, in the 1950s Puerto Rican rebels shot guns from Congress’s gallery, wounding five Congressmen. No Trump supporters fired guns.
I compare those who rioted at the Capitol to the Patriots who stood up to British Soldiers at the Boston Massacre in 1770. Patriots threw rocks and ice and snowballs at British Soldiers. Some Protesters at the Capitol turned into rioters who threw objects at D.C. police. Twenty percent of arrested Trump demonstrators were Veterans, many decorated combat veterans, career servicemen, including a 30-year chaplain. Yes, they all were Patriots; and some overreacted, and some few engaged in violence or destruction. (We all condemn violence.) Remember, the unarmed patriot Ashli Babbitt who had served 14 years in the American Air Force? She trespassed. Committed no violence. What is worse, violence or intentional killing?
Did those hundreds upon hundreds of Trump supporters carrying American flags attempted to “overthrow” the Government? Of course not.
What about claiming that the election was stolen? That’s an opinion. Americans have a right to express their opinions. Pelosi said Hillary’s election was “hijacked”. Hillary still claims her election was stolen by the Russians. Most of the hatred directed at Trump is because Hillary, the arch villainess, lost.
2. VOTES: Trump lost Georgia by (0.2%), Arizona by (0.3%), Wisconsin by (0.7%). If those elections were reversed, the Electoral College would have been tied at 269. The election would have gone to the House, and the majority of republican states would have chosen Trump. (One vote each state.) Trump would have won if he changed votes, percentage-wise, less votes than Delahunt had in 1996. At first, Delahunt had lost by 0.6%, then by 0.4% after recount; then won after the SJC recounted 956 ballots with dimples, “on or near” chads, Delahunt won by 0.4%. Trump has as much cause to contest election results as had Delahunt. Of course, Trump’s hyperbole, “landslide” was untrue, unless you consider Trump won @2,440 counties to Biden winning @440 counties.
so–the Capitol Police are Redcoats. And, they are not veterans. Interesting.
The only fool bigger than Bill is the fool that takes him seriously.
Redcoats represented the Authority. Capitol Police represent the Authority. I never said Capitol Police were not veterans. I pointed out the rioters included patriots, patriotic veterans. I could have said the rioters included policemen, fireman, doctors, nurses, teachers . . . See post to Abe.
Bill
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fbi-domestic-terrorism-chuck-rosenberg/2021/04/05/5a5d4188-9646-11eb-a6d0-13d207aadb78_story.html
Opinion: Does the FBI have the right culture to fight domestic terrorism?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/proud-boys-detention-hearing/2021/04/05/f2d8db02-92f9-11eb-a74e-1f4cf89fd948_story.html
In key showdown, U.S. judge tests prosecutors’ claims that Proud Boys leaders planned Jan. 6 Capitol breach
https://truthout.org/articles/calling-chauvin-a-bad-apple-denies-systemic-nature-of-racist-police-violence/
Calling Chauvin a “Bad Apple” Denies Systemic Nature of Racist Police Violence
The only systemic racism in Media and Academia and large swathes of government is anti-white racism. Reverse racism, exemplified by “critical race theory” and “affirmative action”, has now infested Academia, Media, Government and Corporations. The Civil Rights Acts criminalized discrimination/racism by governments and businesses. No law can erase hatred, and hate exists in the hearts of some people of every race, religion and ethnic group.
Msfreeh’s posts often are thought provoking: Shay’s 1786-7 rebellion was violent, triggered by government’s failures; some say Shay’s rebellion triggered reevaluation, reform leading to the U.S. Constitution. Some protests, uprisings are justifiable. Some Government abuses are pervasive. The Feds likely will overreact to the Jan 6 riots.
We now have a President who thinks he’s been elected as governor, legislator, world police chief. The remedy to Fed power abuse is not Fed Power expanding. The remedy is respecting the Tenth Amendment and granting more independent power to States and the People. Tenth Amendment: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
If Biden has a beef with a state law, get his A.G. to sue in Federal Court. Biden thinks he’s an autocrat. Biden often says, “That’s not who we are.” Biden’s values and views are not ours. We, millions of us, do not think like he does. 75 million voted against him. 51 percent voted for him. Latest polls show his favorability drops below 50 percent. Biden and liberals do not speak for many of us.
Bill
Do you know where MacDonald went into hiding?
https://www.theroot.com/former-cop-arrested-for-storming-capitol-was-once-named-1846622402
Cop Arrested for Storming Capitol Was Once Named ‘Officer of the Year’ After Falsely Accusing Black Man of Murder
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/facial-recognition-local-police-clearview-ai-table
Surveillance Nation
A BuzzFeed News investigation has found that employees at law enforcement agencies across the US ran thousands of Clearview AI facial recognition searches — often without the knowledge of the public or even their own departments.
http://civilrighttocounsel.org/map
The interactive map below gives you a 50-state view of your choice: the latest civil right to counsel activities, the status of civil right to counsel law by type of case (child welfare, paternity, guardianship, etc.), the efforts in which the NCCRC is involved, or the states where NCCRC has a presence. After you select an option, instructions will appear above the map to explain how that option works
Matt:
Beannachtaí na Cásca oraibh.
List of rebellions in the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rebellions_in_the_United_States
I’m not sure whether this qualifies as a rebellion
https://www.military.com/video/specialties-and-personnel/veterans/bonus-army-riots-washington-dc-july-1932/4963216909001
Henry
Found some old footage of busing Roxbury
students into Southie.
See if you can spot Matt in the crowd….
Matt:
Trump is gone. Apply your thoughts to Uncle Joe and his plans.
“Never slap a man who’s chewing tobacco.” Will Rogers
Good advice, Henry.