The American Enterprise Institute (AEI), Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD), and the Israeli American Council (IAC) are beating the war drums. Each of these groups is composed of neo-cons. Each is funded by people interested foremost in Israel. They want war with Iran a country of 81 million people almost three times the size of one of the last countries we attacked, Iraq, and they are right out front seeking it without any hiding.
Eleven years after the Iraq attack we are heading back into that country because the decade we spent in building up its army was wasted. Our overthrow of the order of things has led to the creation of ISIS whose leaders are former Iraqi prisoners. We are still in the middle of our doomed Iraq adventure and we are being pushed into another encounter.
I have wondered if anyone has thought about what happens when we attack Iran. Iran is no Iraq. Its influence reaches down into Syria, Iraq and Lebanon. One thing for sure you can count on, the attack will unite the Iranian people. (Remember what 9/11 did to us.) Have we prepared ourselves for what will follow after the attack? Has that even been discussed?
I noted that Senator Lindsey Graham in a speech at IAC last week called the Iran situation “the most significant event in modern history.” Graham is one of the Senate leaders acting on behalf of these pro-Israeli groups. He is part of the group we once knew as the three amigos, John McCain, soon to be chairman of the Armed Services Committee, and Joe Lieberman, former senator from Connecticut being the others.
They brought us the Iraq mud hole. They learned no lesson from it. They now seek to double down on it by bringing us to war with Iran. Graham took to the floor of the U.S. Senate last week asking unanimous consent to give the senate the final vote on any deal with Iran. As you know, Iran and the U.S. (along with 5 other nations) are due to finalize a deal on Iran’s use of nuclear power by the end of the week. If the Senate gets into the act any deal will be scuttled.
Senator Chris Murphy stopped the vote noting that it would “send a fairly chilling message” that U.S. officials at the table with Iran did not have full authority to negotiate an agreement.
The Hlll in its report on the issue noted Mark Dubowitz, executive director of FDD, funded by war hawk Sheldon Adelson and quoted in a recent Wall Street Journal Op-ed said “In any negotiation, you need a good cop and a bad cop.” Countering him, Trita Parsi, of the National Iranian American Council, which supports the talks, disagreed stating: “If the U.S. Congress is moving forward with sanctions legislation, it sends a signal that the U.S. is not serious in reaching a deal, and the Iranians are not going to entertain this process. This is good cop and crazy cop.”
Of course chasing the Iranians away from the bargaining table is the other side of the plan of Graham and his allies in the Senate. If they do, then no deal will be forthcoming. No deal almost certainly will lead to war.
The bill on the negotiations contains another part which says if Israel attacks Iran the United States is urged to join in on the battle. In other words our elected leaders will send American soldiers and air force to war if another nation decides that should be done. These leaders are putting the lives of Americans in the hands of another country.
This is a little unlike the entry into the Iraq war. There the pro-Israeli groups were somewhat in the background although their members and associates had prominent positions in the Bush administration. It was as if they wanted to leave no paper trail so that they could suggest the war was for oil or the Iraq people themselves and wash away any trace of an Israeli push for it.
Now the pro-Israeli groups are popping out of the ground demanding the U.S. go to war. It’ll be a little hard to distance themselves from the war with Iran like they did with the war for Iraq. That’s not to say if it turns into a disaster destroying many American lives, devastating the economy, and emboldening our enemies they won’t try to run and hide.
* deep left field … ( for Matt’s benefit 🙂 or as we Boston Irish Catholics say …. OYYYYY VEY !!!!!!! 🙂
Never Trust Power:
Invective and hysterical denunciations are as welcome to me as well reasoned arguments when it come to understanding a person’s politics . Unfortunately, though recognizing your cogent and passionate presentation, your shrill denunciatrix tone moves the debate into rant rather than reason. So dial back your Speak Truth To Power panderings to the vague ideological ramblings of the militant Left. Just not crisp enough intellectually for me to do anything but grin and scoff at in friendly big brother fashion. Your Graham/Bin Laden references are particularly hilarious, you scamp. Gotta head out now, but in deference to your Passion in argument I simply note that Pakistan’a eschatological grip on the Apocalyptic is somewhat better than Iran’s. Again, I get a kick out of your lucid presentation of the politically absurd . However I have ni power over where Life has placed the decimal point in the measure of your … response time 🙂 So don’t Panic. It is an Old Old Game we play . Just stop playing it as if deep ledr field is the only place to be. I have responded to your kooky cutter little political screed to the bemused extent it deserves . I find your views reactionary and intellectually shallow ; A Holocaust of Lefty Talking Points. But I acknowledge that they are your views . SHALOM THERE SPANKY 🙂
John King McDonald:”Maybe an attack on Miami would bring it home to you whereas Tel Aviv or Jerusalem would not.”Yeah, we kind of lived that on 9-11.I’m sure there were plenty of dancing Israelis as now, America would be forced to go to war.Cui bono? Always ask that question and always follow the money.Cui bono:to whose benefit? Seems to me I have been hearing Bib talking literally for 10-20 years that Iran is”within 18 months of a bomb”.I’m sure I can come back here with the relevant references if you like.A Muslim nation with a nuke? Yeah, there already is one…Pakistan.Have you been nuked yet? I didnt think so.While we’re on the subject of nukes, when is Israel going to stop lying about it’s arsenal of hundreds of nukes? Mordechai Vanunu spilled the beans decades ago, went to prison for his revelations about Dimona nuke plant.Yet, Israel still lies about their capability.In case you think I’m an anti-Semite (words which I’m sure you will type within .0000002 seconds of reading my post):I have had it with fundamentalist Christians rooting for a world war which will kill billions AND I’ve also had it with the so called Chosen People AND I’ve had it with fanatical Muslims.All 3 are sick, spurred on by their so called religious texts.The world would be better off with religions that dont like to kill their enemies or claim that god “chose”them over all other humans.Guess what? My kids have just as much right to breathe air as your kids do, you fanatic.You’re just as crazy as bin laden or billy graham.
* MATT:
* MIS-TYPED WORD ….. NOT ….. ” MISSPENDING ” WORD ( they call that feature on an Android phone, Auto-Correct Matt, and on a jumpy Android screen it sometimes overcorrects, and chooses) SO PUT THE NITROGLYCERINE BOTTLE BACK ON THE SHELF MATT ( MATT, IN THE BOSTON IRISH ENCLAVE WHERE I WAS BRUD’ UP, WE WOULD CALL THIS NITRO ALLUSION …. HUMOR) FALSE ALARM 🙂
Matt :
You wrote ” I did notice the misspending word when I went back over, but I did not tamper with the quote so perhaps I should have corrected the misspelling.” 🙂 Well folks, it does not get more precious than that. Death not by honorable sword, but instead a thousand henpecks seem to be evidenced here. Well, Matt ” JUSY” so you know and I trust it is not too linguistically gymnastic for you BUTTTTTTTTTT : If ever confronted by the typo of ” JUSY” for the word ” JUST” in a quote that you plan to rebut, do feel free to correct the typo. Old Chum !!!!
Well Matt, Ms. Freeh’s. ” Circle Jerk” metaphor in a previous post has more purchase than she originally intended. You seem to get very irritable and persnickety when people disagree with you, and then you respond like a jilted wife with a bottle of arsenic ( THAT’S CREATIVE WRITING BTW MATT 🙂 ). Perhaps a hiatus is in order. I will just get back now to adding more branches to the deer blind I am building right now about fifty yards behind Flying Pond Variety. I am in the Majestic Oak. 🙂
Matt :
No, it reflects poorly on the word and its presentation, not on the person. Your laissez-faire laid back attitude regarding typos is making me chuckle. You are the same guy who wanted to correct the teacher in front of the class when I wrote ” Axe ” and you maintained the correct spelling was ” Ax. ” When I pointed out they were accepted variants in English describing the same implement you did not man up and admit your mistake. Instead you complained that your spelling of it was more ” American
” So don’t give me your rock ribbed self-assurance routine about how at ease you are with your grammatical misadventures . I got out of U.Mass Boston in ’87 with an English Degree at 3.9 ; out of an English Dept.with more Harvard grads on its faculty than any University except Harvard. There, you made me say it. So, yes, I am a stickler for usage though I like to play around with it on the creative side.
Matt, it seems to be typical of you that you tried to grind your AXE by responding with this comment of yours. And yet you pointedly do not respond to a brief comment I made Wednesday and an equally brief one Thursday. I am not in the ” Unsheathed Sword” but knife in the back gang. As an old Friend once said ” I never will knife you in the back John, I’d do it straight in your heart and looking you in the eyes, because I love you.” I prefer the honesty of looking a person in the eye and settling accounts, Matt. It is indeed my signature.
Matt :
It is unbelievably petty of you to replicate in italicized quote a very simple typo I made … hitting the adjacent “y” key and rendering ” just as ” jusy” in the quote ” I suppose Isis are just rhetoricians to you. ” In my usual meticulous way I asterisked and corrected a typo that any fourth grader would have parsed immediately from the context. But damned if in the most irritating juvenile example of what we in telecom used to call ” gotcha -ism ” if you did not publish the typo. Then a rather sophomoric observation about the confusion of understanding you suffered. Are you serious? Neither of I
us has reached the statutory age of senility, so I will just take this as another petulant Ax/Axe quibble of yours. Come on Old Boy, you can do so much better !!! 🙂
John:
There are so many errors I make in typing that the last thing I would do was to suggest because someone mistyped a word that reflected poorly on the person. I took some of your quotes and put them in my comment. I did notice the mistyped word when I went back through it but I did not want to tamper with the quote but perhaps should have corrected it. You make much more of misspellings than I do since for me they are nothing more than that and I am most guilty of such things aside from numerous other grammatical errors.
Matt:
There is no pro- Israel group more pro-Israel than Israel itself , so your ” run and hide ” shot is just another of your ‘ bombs. ”
You are hoist on your own petard with Hamas. Yes, you did defend them. You know you did. I do not have access to the entire archive of your quotes, as I suspect you are aware, but I gave you one from memory ( re: Civilian shielding, .) It was not atypical. Yes, I do believe you gloss over the virulence of groups like ISIS and HAMAS, whatever your reasons for so doing. No, I do not accept high falutin’ assertions and language of ” false writing ” and ” spurious allegations ” as other than what they are : self-righteous taking of umbrage at the fact that inferences are drawn from what you write, and the person reading what you post has the intellectual right to draw them, state what they are, and disagree with your argument. There should be no such tremulous response such as ” I may have to edit your remarks etc.” If you can dish it out then be prepared to take it without getting on your high horse and heading for the hills.
And do stop belaboring the ” nuclear bunker buster” stuff. Military experts have suggested fpr several years now that they may be the only bombs/missiles that would work
You take it where you want to take it as suits your argument. Fine, that is your right. You are nor the only person who is concerned about further US involvement in the Mideast. I deal in Realpolitik. You traffic in speculation. Again, that is your right. Israel is almost certainly going to move on Iran at somw point. That is the Realpolitik of the situation. If they do they may well have to use small tactical nukes to achieve the goal of the attack. I advocate them doing this if it means that we, among other things, do not have to invade Iran ourselves. We will be boots on the ground with ISIS soon enough, if indeed we are not already. Why don’t you man that post so to speak instead of postulating US invasion of Iran that no one feels is imminent except apparently …. you! !!! Again though, it is your intellectual right to make any arguments you want to make. It is vain to try to deny that same right to any who disagree with what you are putting out in … the Marketplace of Ideas !!!
Yup. It’s a trillion dollar windfall. And that trillion buys a lot of power to push for achieving more classical national security objectives like eliminating the threats north of your nation if your Saudi Arabia… Or finally castrating support for Hamas and Hezbollah and crushing Palestine if your Israel. You can also fund a lot of “terrorists” willing to die for their cause with that kind of dough. Terrorists where the guy behind the guy behind the guy is actually your guy. There is no doubt that Iran Hamas and Hezbollah etc are despicable dangerous folks… But taking them out mostly for greed or to achieve other nation national security interests .. As opposed to our interests …At an exceedingly great cost in American lives, treasure and American global influence is simply lunacy. We have been and are being manipulated as fools. One side bar.. I am enough of a Jew that I would have been put into the ovens although raised catholic. The tossing around of the term anti semitism on these issues is utter nonsense. It’s used to still born discussion. To make U.S. bank. We are not talking about Judaism. We are talking about another nation with interests increasingly far removed indeed counter to our own.
Matt:
Yes I brought up the issue of anti-semitism . You and NC suggest it is another of those ” obnoxious labels ” that stifle debate. My very closely worded retort was that to suggest that it is in the field of discussion is just a way of disabling further argument, is actually a very clever rhetorical argument to shut down any consideration or debate about … anti-semitism. It is not a convoluted point. It is a straightforward point, straightforwardly made. So enough of the whacky misconstructions I have no doubt you regularly bewitched, bewildered and bedazzled slack jawed and wondering eyed Norfolk County Juries with Matt. I find you very much the Artful Dodger in argument. You will have to be quicker in trying to steal the ” Silks” ( handkerchiefs) from me than from others. A tip of the Cap to both Oliver Twist and Charles Dickens.:-)
* Israel using ….
* ” You want to Nuke Iran ” 🙂
Matt: Okie dokie. I support Israeli using 200 cruise missiles to destroy an Iranian nuclear bunker rather than the one highly specific in targeting very economically streamlined and site confined nuclear missile military experts worldwide have suggested is what would actually work. Does that make you feel better? Perhaps if you remembered that I had further qualified the “,overstated the use of weapons “,point by writing ” Israel may well or may well not ” use such a tactical capability we would not have arrived at your fantastic embellishment of ” You want nuke Iran .” One may go from the sublime to the ridiculous and vice-versa. Your assertion is simply sublimely ridiculous. Nuke Iran as if targeted bunker strikes are a countrywide Holocaust !!! … Horsefeathers as Colonel Potter would say. 🙂
John:
That a nuke is designed as tactical to hit a bunker still makes it a nuclear attack.
What’s it worth to know the future? To know the exact moment war on Iran begins? To then know the exact moment global crude prices triple overnight? AEI is largely funded by Exxon Mobil. You can buy a lot of politics with knowledge of the future. And it’s just a short leap from desiring knowledge to creating a known future with war.
Jim:
Good point. Imagine the killing in oil one could make at this time since its price has fallen to lows not seen in decades. Also imagine the smiles on the faces of the Saudis and their Arab neighbors if we were to give them such a windfall.
* Martial resolve and spirit.
Matt : We got into a wrangle a while back about Hamas. A volley of comments between us had to do with your feeling that the Gazans were not intimidated by them, that among other things ” what are they supposed to do when confronted bu such a superior military force as Israel ” or such similar, in defending thrir civilian shielded gun and rocket emplacements , and so on. I had very opposite views of both their terror tunnels and civilian shielding than you expressed. You suggested in your post that Israel would ” run and hide” having initiated a Iranian shitstorm that the United States would have to carry the load on. You wrote this coincidentally on the very day Israel bore this disgusting butchery at the Synagogue. Palestinians danced in Jerusalem’s streets in celebration and distributed candy to their children. You merely coincidentally wrote a Post impugning Israel’s motives and martoal resolve and spirit. Odd, because Israel is renowned for its fighting spirit and ability. It is your intellectual right to question anyone’s motives. There was no ” sinking low” in attempting to ” connect ” you to the Synagogue atrocities ; I simply pointed out that a group you clearly sympathize with endorsed and praised the attackers. You certainly will not deny your sympathies. I clearly did not suggest thst they made you morally culpable for the Synagogue slaughter and beheadings. That would be a rather grandiose implication to make, would it not. I do not always agree with you, but I truly do consider your character is as unimpeachable as I find your politics in this case deplorable.
No. I do not support US military involvement in Iran. I feel like retching when I consider the futile squandering of
the real treasure we have lost in Afghanistan and Iraq in the last two decades odd … young soldiers’ lives, limbs and sanity. So, your question is very easily answered. Whether it proves the right answer only time and events will tell.
John:
You’re running a little off track unfortunately. I wrote two posts setting out in quoted words how several groups of pro-Israel individuals are interested in having us go to war against Iran, that we should be alert to that happening. Here are some of the responses you have made to my posts in chronological order.
“you glibly sidestep the historically obvious issue of anti-semitism and its results “
You suggest opposing an attack that Israel is seeking to be done by America on Iran is anti-Semitic.
“by your vociferous support of them, HAMAS,”
That I have never done and again call on you to back it up.
“I would support Israel using tactical nuclear bunker busters”
Your position seems quite extreme.
“Anti-semitism is not so easily dismissed”
Again suggesting not to support an attack on Iran sought by Israel is anti-Semitic
“Yes, you have defended Hamas on this blog.”
That I have never done and again call on you to back it up.
“Hamas has now clearly shown you the error of wearing them in their case. Though you may well have wanted to wear them at the Synagogue yesterday”
Don’t really know what you mean but a wrongful and disingenuous association of my position on attacking Iran with the tragedy at the synagogue.
“ISIS are jusy rhetorician in your denatured view of them “
Again, can’t quite figure out what you are saying but never have I suggested anything close to ISIS being all talk and no action. In fact, I have constantly condemned them setting out their horrific deeds.
“You overstate the use of weaponry by Israel which may or may well not be nuclear..”
It was you who said he would support a nuclear attack on Iran by Israel.
“Then you insist on an answer tp a hypothetical question about a situatiion that your rather active imagination has conjured up.”
Hardly is the urging of America to attack Iran a hypothetical question. Re-read my posts.
“You suggested in your post that Israel would ” run and hide” “”
Again falsely stating my views. Re-read my post where I used those words.
“You wrote this coincidentally on the very day Israel bore this disgusting butchery at the Synagogue. Palestinians danced in Jerusalem’s streets in celebration and distributed candy to their children. You merely coincidentally wrote a Post impugning Israel’s motives and martoal resolve and spirit.”
Yes, I wrote a post that day and the day after. Nothing I wrote referred to the synagogue. I have not impugned Israel’s motives in any manner. Benjamin Netanyahu has made it clear it wants us to attack Iran. So have his supporters in America. That is their right just as it is my right to oppose it. Note how you malign me by falsely stating one thing (run and hide) out of context and then suggesting I impugned Israel’s martial resolve.
“ I simply pointed out that a group you clearly sympathize with endorsed and praised the attackers. You certainly will not deny your sympathies. “
Again false writing. I have not sympathized endorsed or praised any attacker. You want to conflate my stance that America should not attack Iran on behalf of Israel with outside issues accusing me of anti-Semitism, supporting Hamas, denigrating Israel, and on and on. Stop throwing your bombs to distract the discussion from the issue at hand. If you can’t, then I’ll just have to edit your comments since I don’t have the time to defend myself from your multitude of spurious and irresponsible allegations.
* All rhetoric is just that unless it is Shedon Adelson’s.
* Nope …. was right in the first place … RHETORICIANS 🙂 Yayyyyyyyyyyy! !!! Bully for me .
* RHETORITICIANS
* ISIS are just rhetoricians in your denatured view of them.
Matt:
Asked and answered please see responses to Dan C. …. As to Iran’s ” harmless rhetoric ” and your Cold War Kruschev comparisons the critical difference is that Nikita Kruschev was a hardheaded bulldog who cut his teeth in the Siege of Stalingrad , knew War, survived Joe Stalin and was not a religious fanatic. You set up straw men in your arguments like Kruschev rather than addressing specific points of argument that were made by me. Yes, you have defended Hamas on this blog. I will not embarrass you by quoting you on this. Does this make you a bad guy? I think not. You should take your blinders off regarding Iran however. Hamas has now clearly shown you the error of wearing them in their case. Though you may well have wanted to wear them at the Synagogue yesterday where the two animals extolled by your Hamas Freedom Fighters did their obscene number. You ignore such incidents , and they are numerous and growing, and engage in the most numbingly evasive rhetoric of all, which is to not perceive the difference between rhetoric and numerous documented incidents of Iran winked at if not downright supported and funded terrorism. ISIS are jusy rhetorician in your denatured view of them ; ditto for Hamas and ditto for Iran. Well, Time will tell. You overstate the use of weaponry by Israel which may or may well not be nuclear . You have postulated a situation, a US invasiion of Iran as presumably all rhetoric is just that unless it is Sheldon Adelson. Then you insist on an answer tp a hypothetical question about a situatiion that your rather active imagination has conjured up. Burn down your own straw men. It is only you who have set them up !!!
John:
You again ducked the question whether you would support a US strike on Iran.
You did answer thusly: “I would support Israel using tactical nuclear bunker busters to disarm that capability. Israel can do this independently.” What about the U.S. position.
Unfortunately it is impossible to address your specific points since they change with each post. Again I call on you to show me where I defended Hamas. Please quote me and stop insinuating something false.
You sink low in your arguments about the attack at the synogogue which I have condemned as you will see in my upcoming post. So low that because of my opposition to America attacking Iran you try to connect me up with such an attack.
Then you reach for the absurd when you suggest I overstate the weaponry of Israel when you are the one as shown by your statement above where you support a nuclear attack on Iran.
Perhaps a little more remembrance of what you have written will serve us all a little better.
We have been down this road already. Anti-semitism is not so easily dismissed. To easily dismiss it is the real stifling of debate. Iran’s enrichment centrifuges and nuclear goods are buried deep in rock in mountains in armored bunkers that would awe even the Nazi submarine pen engineers. Small scale highly targeted nuclear ” Bunker Busters” may be the least collaterally destructive option for Israel to employ. This is not in the wildest imagination equivalent to ” Nuking Iran. ” Perhaps with Iran the only response to those who have complete myopia about the villainy they are up to Worldwide is to invoke the old Gypsy curse regarding them …. ” May all of your wishes come true.”
John: You brought up the anti-Semitic suggestion now you suggest it stiffles the debate. Make up your mind. You also suggested that I supported Hamas which is absurd.
You were asked the question whether you support America attacking Iran which is what the posts were about. You don’t answer that but go off into some idea of nuking Iran by Israel which as NC suggests and I agree would be lunacy. You then try to suggest tactical nuclear bombs are somehow less evil than other nuclear bombs.
The real problem with your responses on this issue is that as NC points out you confuse rhetoric with action. No country with nuclear weapons, not even North Korea or Pakistan, has crossed the threshold from possession to use. Yet your solution is for Israel to do that. Have you even given the first thought to the casualties that would produce? Have you considered the reaction by the world? Have you thought that Iran’s rhetoric is little more than that?
Anyway, perhaps you could answer the question whether you think the US should attack Iran and under what conditions.
It would be lunacy for Israel to nuke Iran. The Persians haven’t waged an aggressive war in centuries. Could Israel nuke a Muslim country, cross that threshold and not expect massive retaliation? Is the heated rhetoric in Iran. Israel and Russia for domestic political consumption? Do you advance your domestic political power by denouncing foreign devils? Kruschev with thousands of atomic weapons promised to bury us. Nothing happened. Talk is cheap. It is not a causation for war. Pakistan is a much more pressing problem in the nuclear proliferation field. A strong jihadist movement, an unstable government and fifty atomic bombs. Iran has none. Matt is right we should stay out of any Iranian conflict unless and until they use special weapons. He is also right about the charge of Anti Semitism. Completely bogus and designed to stifle debate. Criticism of BHO is often denounced as racist. Another false claim.
NC:
Agree totally with what you noted. John wants us to think it’s OK if the nuclear weapons used are tactical weapons which to the rest of the world the difference would not be appreciated. You rightly note it is talk for home consumption – had John had his way when Khruschev said he would bury us we should have launched our nukes against him right away.
As for the general charges of anti-Semitism for daring to point to the problem or supporting Hamas because I thought the attack on Gaza was excessive or as you not suggestions of racism if I cricitice Obama they are all suppose to keep me quiet on the issue.
Its best to speak and out let one’s writings speak for themselves as you, others and I do and stopped trying to put people into bags under obnoxious labels.
* In other words Dan C. .. there is no reason for what Iran officially calls the Great Satan, US, to take military action when the State that Iran officially calls The Little Satan, Israel, can handle the job . 🙂
* thoughtful question, Dan.
Dan C :
That is a scalable question. If Iran is trying to get the Bomb with the avowed and earnest … let’s take them at their own words now !!! …. intent of obliterating Israel in a … Let’s make way for the Second Mahdi and all head to Paradise … suicide strike, then yes. There is no way that Israel can sidestep the claims of a radical and hostile Muslim State to annihilate it. I would support Israel using tactical nuclear bunker busters to disarm that capability. Israel can do this independently . They do not want to be hindered doing it. It is Israels head that is on the Muslim chopping block. As Kipling said …. If you can keep your head while all about you others are losing theirs …… 🙂 …. Well, let’s just say that in the Jihadi Casbah that the Mideast and much of the World is becoming … That
… is a Very Good Thing !!! I elaborate no further than that, Ben. Appreciate your thoughtful question though.
The War on Terror only helped to perpetuate Islamic extremism among Muslim youth in the 2000s, so now 10 years later we have an Islamic State and many other terrorist groups popping up across the globe. More than half of Iran’s populations is under 35 years old. While the Iranian leadership is hard-line Islamic, much of the population lives moderate, if not secular lives. If we attack Iran and kill thousands if not millions of people, I can guarantee that the approx 40 million of those under 35 will turn jihadist. Perpetuating the cycle of never ending war, weakening us in the face of our real existential threats, an allied China and Russia.
Dave:
Totally agree. Before we stuck our nose into the Middle East the terrorists were few and far between. Now we have seen as a result of our misadventures the rise of terrorist armies. All we need is to add some of the 90 million Iranians to that group and we will finally realize, perhaps too late, that it would have been better to stay at home and not divert our resources into hopeless endeavors.
Hi John: Respectfully, you seems to have sidestepped a central question raised here. Do you support a military attack on Iraq by the U.S.?
Sorry! Make that Iran, not Iraq.
Coda: Matt, What confounds the Western mind is the suicidal fanaticism of the Muslim religious zealot. A religious fanatic with a vest bomb is formidable. A religiously fanatical State with a nuclear bomb is a ballistic threat quantum magnitude. Bebe Netanyahu understands this. George Santayana once said ” A Fanatic is one who once he realizes his cause is truly lost, simply redoubles his efforts.” It may be tough to wrap your mind around Muslim fanaticism Matt. Maybe Miami would bring it home to you whereas Jerusalem or Tel Aviv would not. But Iran is a fanatical Muslim State. Or at least its leadership, the button pushers, are religious fanatics. Too much here to catalogue Iran sponsored episodes of their terror … let’s blow up the whole show …. creed. Sufficient to say Allah Al Akbar and call it a day.
Matt :
By artful contrivance you glibly sidestep the historically obvious issue of anti-semitism and its results . Rather than its being, as you suggest, a discussion stopper it is indeed where you are invited to examine and discuss its existence and the specific role it plays in Muslim/Jewish relations in the Mideast. You refuse to address it. Instead you disingenuously avoid the subject altogether by stating that it is some sort of debater’s trick . I made a statement about the social, political and cultural context that forms the death cult matrix that is Iran’s plainly evidenced orientation to the State of Israel and its Jewish citizens. I quoted their Supreme Leader Ayatollah Al Khameini who makes no bones about it. I do not personally consider you or your rather judicious view of a roiling cesspool of state intrigue and worldwide support and sanction and financing of anti- Western terror factions that is … Iran … to be anti-semitic. I understand and share your reluctance to be further mired in Mideast conflict. Your view that Iran is not close to achieving, and intent on achieving, a nuclear capability is Pollyannish and contrary to evidence. This, combined with a death cult State rhetoric by Al Khameini in regards to Israel is unacceptable. Platitudes and blandishments from Iran are the real debater’s tricks in this … argument. It is an argument …. the right of the Jews to have an officially recognized State without fear of clearly stated threats of annihilation from a neighboring State, that Israel has no intention of losing, with or without US !!! 🙂
Matt:
Anti-Semitism is all the rage with the lefty not so intelligentsia. When the Islamo-Fascists manage to detonate a dirty bomb I suppose these geniuses will suppose their support of fashionable Terroristas will exenpt them from the consequences of their hatred of Jews and support of Muslim Terror States. It won’t. !!!!!!! … This is the uranium enriched irony of it all 🙂 … THEY ARE MUSLIM TERROR STATE IRAN’S USEFUL IDIOTS. PERIOD.
In 2012 Iran formally and doctrinally laid before the civilized World their ” legal” and religious justification for the annihilation of Israel and the complete slaughter of its people : The Doctrine urges and sanctions the elimination of Jewish assets and Jewish people worldwide ….. Supreme Leader of Iran, your Uber-Super Duper Progressive Mideast Mover, Matt, Ayatollah Al Khameini , said ” the opportunity must not be lost to remove this corrupting material. ” …. At a Friday religious service that same week Khameini said ” Iran will support any Nation or group that attacks the cancerous tumor of Israel. ” … So yes Matt, let’s propitiate Iran and give this enlightened Torchbearer of Humanity, THE BOMB !!!!!!!
Neville Chamberlain wanted to lick Hitler’s Boots ; Winston Churchill put his Boot up Hitler’s ass. To each his own !!!!!!!
John:
Your use of the word “anti-Semitism” is unfortunate. You equate my position that America not being forced into war with Iran to protect Israel with being anti-Semitic. As an American then, you seem to suggest I must sit back in fear of being so labeled and remain silent when I see my country being brought into another war. Or, like you, close my eyes to the horrors that war will bring and suggest we go off and kill 10,000 or 100,000 or even more Iranians because we must support whatever Israel desires.
The international community has taken steps to insure Iran does not get a nuclear weapon. No one has suggested, except Israel, that it is close to having one. Iran has assured people that it does not want one. We are told we cannot rely on Iran’s assurances but we are not doing that, we have ways to make sure that it is living up to its agreement.
For upwards of 20 years Israel has urged us to attack Iran. It has been saying that it will be getting the bomb in a year or two but as the time passes and no bomb appears it repeats the same warning. How many times can it call wolf before you get the idea that there may be something else beyond the idea of the bomb that is prompting its call for our attack. Yet the cry of “bomb Iran” goes on and this time big money is hoping to buy an American attack.
Even if Iran secured a nuclear weapon it would never use it on Israel for the consequences would be too dire. No leader wants to see his nation annihilated and that is surely what would happen if it were used. But that’s not really the issue. The bomb is a pretext. Netanyahu in his latest statement said Iran also must be forced to do away with its long range ballistic missile program. Where will it all end.
The use of the term anti-Semitic is supposed to shut down discussion. Nice try. It won’t work with me since I feel as an American I should also have a voice into American affairs especially when it comes to wars. I’m not telling Israel what to do but I am like those in America who openly advocate that America bomb Iran suggesting that it not be done.
In the world of espionage there is no greater prize than to compromise the counter espionage forces of you target. There are a whole lot of dead and maimed US Marines cause this occurred.
Best piece you have written. Dead on. Don’t forget that inthe Iraq war run up a Mossad connection was found in the DoD office that cooked the Iraq Intel. The office of special programs run by Dr. Bill Luti. Staffer named Franklin was bagged working with Israelii sources. Google it. Your pals in the DOJ FBI squashed it on orders from NEOCONS. Luti founded this new office and was assigned directly from Cheney’s personal staff with orders to fabricate the provocation for war. Somewhere in our National security apparatus this same kind of action is ongoing now. Cheers
Jim:
Thanks. I’ve had little doubt seeing the people who were behind bringing us the Iraq war that it was done in great part for Israel. Over the years its role, perhaps because it was such a mistake, has been slowly erased by people suggesting it had little to do with the war. One only had to watched the AIPAC convention in DC a month or so before the war to see the cheer leading for the war by the audience and all the speakers. This time if we attack Iran and the consequences begin to be felt it will be harder for those who urged us on to the bombing to hide but it is still important to keep track of they way we are being bought to do the attack. By speaking out against it and showing its advocates I can only hope that we recognize the problems such an attack will bring about.